@Mikael...Obviously, budgeted expenditures aren't actual expenditures due to the fact that budgets are what is planned at the beginning of a year. However, along with budgeted expenditures, there's something called bugeted revenue. At the end of day, both budgeted revenue and budgeted expenditures will vary somewhat from actual revenue and actual expenditures; however, budgeted and actual should/will alway be very close otherwise you end up with deficit spending or surplus funds. And if you have deficit spending, you can't cover the expenses and it's called bankruptcy. The last I checked, CCSD isn't bankrupt so stop with your juvenille "Approved-Yes", "Reality-No" arguments. The audited financial statements are available at the CCSD office.

If you don't believe budgets approximate actual, go the office and prove us wrong. Otherwise, grow up and start having intelligent discussions.

Danny Dukes is running for school board chair...Great. N O T!!!

He announces grand plans but nothing to support how he'll accomplish it. For instance, he is going to eliminate all teacher furloughs by reducing a bloated central office. Based upon 2010-2011 compensation, Mr. Dukes would need to cut around $5-$5.5 million from the "bloated" central office to eliminate furlough days. This is well over 50% of central office/admin salary.

Mr. Dukes will never "vote" for a tax increase. But will he support a tax increase? Does he support the HOST sales tax that will increase sales taxes by 1%? Will he freeze home values to prevent property tax increases as home values improve? Does he support the T-Splost sales tax that will increase taxes by 1%?

Mr. Dukes will cut the dropout rate in half. How? If he has the solution, every school system in the country would pay good money to hear and implement his solution. Why hasn't he already proposed the solution?

Mr. Dukes will "repair" the relationship between the BOE and "others" (i.e. the Cherokee Delegation - Chip Rogers & friends and pro-Charter supporters). However, Mr. Dukes fails to realize that he, Chip Rogers and the others are the ones circumventing the duly elected BOE...he's part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Mr. Dukes has an obvious conflict of interest via his board relationship with Charter Schools USA and CCA.

Voting for him would be a tremendous mistake!!!

If Danny Dukes were the only person on the ballot, I'd write in my mother, my favorite teacher or my lawyer. At least those people are trustworthy.

Having two children in the Cherokee County School District from kindergarten to graduation. I have seen both sides first as a parent and now an employee. Over the past 12 years I have attended many special school events across the county. Board meetings, PTA meetings, Scholars Banquets, Teacher of the Year. Events large and small. During this time I have seen Janet Read attend events in support of our students and teachers all over the county. I have NEVER seen Mr. Dukes attend anything.
So who will I vote for? The person who has consistently supported our students by her actions. NOT someone who shows up claiming to end hunger and bring world peace......

Why not Danny Dukes? We have seen that our current board is not implementing the changes necessary to stop our wonderful and dedicated teachers from having Furlough days. The blame game is over! We need fresh blood on the BOE that will actually implement positive changes. The focus has to be on our students and teachers and all of the political gerrymandering has to come to an end.

***our current board with a few exceptions. Danny Dukes has a strong and fiscally responsible background. Sure, Appalachian Bank failed, but it did so due to our stifled economy.

Oh I see, its Danny Dukes fault the bank went bankrupt? So is it Jay Wright's fault Its a Grind went out of business too? Nope, its called a bad economy. Lets keep the arguments relevant please

Nope...not in a million years would I vote for Dukes. I remember his failed campaign last time...he was mean and nasty. His negative attitude spilled over into a negative campaign....yuck!!! Why do the charter school folks think they have all the answers. The charter folks are a few minority but want to have majority voices....nope, not in a million years...I hope the people of Cherokee county pay attention and vote against DD, Marlow,chip, sean, Charlice and Calvin. They do not have the best interest of kids in their hearts.

The Charter people are a small minority? Lol. Funny..Chip Rogers and Sean Jerguson are "charter people" and thousands of people love and voted for them. There is also a waiting list of ALL grades at charter for next year except maybe 8th grade. The school is packed full for next year already and upwards of 50 on a waiting per grade in some cases. Minority? I think not. People are beating the doors down to get in. Just because they don't post on here doesn't mean they aren't a majority voice. Get with the times because they are a changin!!

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/high-school-notes/2012/05/09/marking-20-years-of-charter-schools and take special note that "Today, there are more than 5,600 charter schools across the country, and about 400,000 students sitting on wait lists, ready to enroll." doesn't sound like a minority to me!

Marking 20 Years of Charter Schools - High School Notes (usnews.com)
www.usnews.com
Charter schools are so in-demand that 400,000 students are sitting on wait lists.

Since you guys love articles and quotes, read away....

38,000 because they didn't have a charter choice before now! As you see with choice, the numbers grow. And just because people aren't attending the charter schools doesn't mean they don't support them. I have personal friends who teach and have children in CCSD both and they support choice and charter schools. The only minority here are the few of you anti charter people who post non stop on the patch articles! Ashley, Frank, Cheryl..every once in awhile you get another friend who comments with you but it's rare. I'd call that a minority myself. For the record, I don't vote for an R by a name, maybe many do, but I'm not one of them. Most of the charter people I know are democrats anyway following a choice platform (which is an inherently republican concept) so that just proves both parties can work together for what is important! Speaking of political messes like the maps situation! The forcing of BOE members to go ahead and extend Dr. P's contract MONTHS before they did last time (which was in July) and before some of them had a chance to even read it...was the biggest political move I've seen yet. Let me hurry up and get my cronies to extend my job before they lose theirs! All groups involved have a political agenda. Dr. P and his cronies are just as guilty so that's an irrelevant argument

900 students compared to 38000 is a minority....
@mikael...I didn't say all supporters are parents and the only thing I fear is going backwards to a time when some members of our board didn't do the right thing for students. I'm not sure why some people dislike Dr.P so much....he can be arrogant and loud, but he has led this distirct to one with integrity. Have you seen the headlines from other counties....hundreds of teachers laid off, investigations into construction ills. Check out the problems at North Fulton Academy...they arent in trouble because of their academics but becasue of mismanagement of funds....maybe DD should go there and work his money magic on them.

Danny Dukes running for School Board Chair?? hahahahahahaha That egomaniac has been drinking his Vitalis again if he thinks he can get elected.

Heads of state who ride and wrangle, who look at your face from more than one angle, can cut you from their "bloated" budgets, like sharpening knives through chicken mcnuggets.

Regarding the limited number of folks posting on the patch.... We used to post but We believe the patch is CLEARLY biased towards the charter school folks. Have they run a story regarding Janet Read's official announcement? No they have not. But we got called out by Rodney for being "anonymous". That was after We posted a detailed post regarding all the places readers could look for examples of Danny Dukes' incompetence... IRS/ taxes websites to show of his IRS lien and "magical" payoff last fall, his improper business relationships with Charter Schools USA through his personal business. Financial mismanagement? Check! Mystery money to pay of IRS lien? Check! Conflict of interest with CSUSA? Check! Failure to properly register personal business with state dept. of revenue? Check! Cant have bad stuff about DD on the posts, especially where readers ould check out the FACTS!! But hey, we're anonymous. And we have explained to Rodney why we will continue this way in the future. So why the bias? Our thought that CSUSA has bought an awful lot of ads from the Patch.... Maybe not here, but in Florida perhaps? Feel free to dispel theory Rodney. Also tell us why you haven't posted JR's announcement.

OK seriously? Danny Dukes is going to repair the "relationship" between the BOE and local
Leaders? I didn't know that a ventriloquist and his puppet had an actual relationship! If Chip is the ventriloquist then Danny Dukes is the.... Well, you can finish the rest. Aaahhh the image of Danny sitting on Chip's lap... Who knows? Maybe it is a relationship! LOL!!

Dukes is NOT qualified and has both a personal agenda and vendetta. It's so funny, for all that group whines about current board members being Dr. P's puppets, don't they realize that they are Chip's? And that is the way everyone sees THEM??

And regarding Fulton Science Academy. There is A LOT not discussed in the media. Parents at that school have been visited by the FBI and Dept. of Homeland Security. Missing $6 million dollars is the least of their problems. That money has left the country. Let Chip & Co. tie themselves to this school and their questionable benefactors.

Danny Dukes definately distanced himself from that pretty fast. He had a big congrats to Chip on his Facebook page for Chip's award for supporting that school but quickly removed it as info of the school's pending rejection by the state charter school came to light along with info about its questionable affiliation with subversive international activities.

@Flock...I saw your earlier post regarding Mr. Duke's tax liens, but I did look for it until tonight. Found it! WWWWWOOOOOOOWWWW!!! I though they'd throw you in jail for that much.

For everyone else, here's what I found. In June 2010, the IRS filed a tax lien on Mr. Duke for the following: Tax Year 2004 - $179,317, Tax Year 2005 - $10,055 and Tax Year 2006 - $27,294. This information can be found at: http://deeds.cherokeega.com/showdetails.aspx?id=1825716&rn=1&pi=0&ref=search. The lien was released on 10/17/11.

I think I know how Mr. Dukes plans on eliminating teacher furlough days...Let the teachers work but not pay them for 5-7 years. If he can't manage his personal finances, how will he handle CCSD's?

Lastly, Mr. Dukes is a CPA and CPA's are held to high standards by the CPA societies. Shouldn't they have revoked his license to practice for failing to pay his taxes?

Danny Dukes = mental equivalent of Alvin Greene. Check out this piece of political legend...

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-june-14-2010/alvin-greene-wins-south-carolina-primary

@Maly...I'm glad you child is now happy. I don't know her or your situation but school should be a positive learning experience. Not every teacher, not every principal is the best for every child. I hope that whatever your issues were, that you pushed the teacher, counselor, principal and even Dr. P to make it right before you gave up. Depending upon the issues, there may have been Federal and Georgia laws that you could have used to FORCE them to do what's right.

I've come to learn that sometimes you have to become a Stormin' Norman to win your battles.

My question is where did Danny Dukes get the money from to pay this lien off? $200,000 in this economy? And Charter Schools USA is one of his clients? And his lien was paid off just after the Charter School opened? There are some very relavent questions that need to be answered.

And @Maly. Follow Chip. Have at it. Has he put making a buck a buck over the SECURITY of our NATION and allowed our children to be indoctrinated by foreign nationals with a questionable agenda? I don't know the answer to this question but I do know a lot of very important people are asking these same questions. And so far.... Things aren't looking good for the leadership that has been supporting this school. Personally, I would NEVER compromise the safety and security of our nation and those defending it just to make a buck. Isn't anyone worried about where that $6 million went and what it is being used for? But again @Maly follow Chip. Just don't ever say you didn't know....

@Maly. Personally I love the charter school. It has taken every crazy, irrational parent off the backs of the principals, teachers and PTAs that have had to put up with them at their home schools. These are parents that have never been happy with anything! Don't worry, their euphoria over the charter school will soon wear off. But for now I am so, so glad that we have managed to corral them all in one place. It's been a nice school year!

@Frank Jones. Thanks for posting the Danny Dukes link to his IRS tax lien. Perhaps the Patch should pay you for writing their investigative pieces.

And great point about the CPA licensing! Where can we find out this information?

@Ashley. Janet Read is our best option for chair of the BOE. I like what I've read about her being so visable in the education community too!

@Mikael

Why do you always talk like you've just left an SAT prep class? Being able to use a thesaurus to "insert big word here" doesn't make you any more intelligent than anyone else on this forum. Seriously?

If I could vote, I'd vote for danny dukes. He'so the best man for our property values because the quality of schools is tied to the property values!

@Frank Knox. Well hopefully you can't vote. If DD is elected BOE chair our school system will be on SACS probation so fast it will make your head spin. How will THAT affect your property values?

Of course if I lived in Cherokee county I may think differently! Good luck with Mr. Dukes, I have not had the pleasure to meet him personally but have a few friends that know him well. Well intended he he might be, but so full of conflicts he can't possibly see straight on this one. Kudos to Mr. Rogers to, this certainly shows cherokee county they have some necessary housecleaning to do.

flock of school girls like i said before i could care less about chip rogers. i care about my child and only my child! i will fight to keep her there. she deserves the best and in my opinion she has the best. There r teachers at ccsd thth r wonderful! there r teachers at CCA tht r wonderful! Ccsd has splost. my tax money, my ex tax money but my child doesnt see it. Kat, u can call me a nut, freak or bit--, i dont care! u call us names because we speak out for our children. we try to get them what they need and deserve. wonder if ur child wishes u would speak up for them instead of remaining quiet. say wht u want but i know i am getting what my baby Needs. u would be an awful mom if. u didnt fight for ur child!

What on earth makes you think we don't fight for our children?!? We spend our time ADVOCATING for ALL children of Cherokee County. There are lots of parents that work WITH the school system to enact the changes our children need. I don't understand why the charter school advocates insist on portraying those of us parents that SUPPORT the CCSD as parents that don't care as much about our children as you do or as being "brainwashed" by Dr. P.

There are many, many parents that are passionate advocates of the schools because we believe that a high quality education is the greatest thing we can offer future generations. Access to this education is the great equalizer. We believe that a nation can and should be judged by the quality of education it provides to ALL of its children... And we believe that HOW we provide this education is like holding up a mirror to the soul of our consciences. We believe in a public education for ALL children that helps them realize THEIR American dreams despite their economic status, home life or parental involvement. We advocate for our children and for all the children in our schools whose parents can't or won't advocate for them. Unless we as a society truly make education our number one priority - and yes that includes fully funding it even in economic hard times - until we make it our top priority we as a nation risk our position on the world stage and we risk not only the prosperity of our nation but the SURVIVAL of it.

Continued.....

We are not going to apologize for supporting public education and the efforts of CCSD. We are SO OVER the charter school contingent labeling us parents who are against CCA as being less caring, less intelligent or less committed to improving the education for ALL children, not just our own.

And nobody is calling you names because you speak out for your child. They call you names because of HOW you speak out for your child. As Frank pointed out above, I hope these parents made a concerted effort to solve whatever problems they had with the teacher, AP, principal and so on. Personally I know of a number of parents who didn't like their child's teacher and then pulled their child to go to CCA without ever having addressed the problem. No worries though.... We're addressing them for you. It would've been great if you stayed around to help but ... Oh, well.

Chip Rogers released a new video this morning on Facebook titled "Fiscal Responsibility". Danny Dukes is the first one to press the "like" button! How is that for irony!

Let's not forget the hotel fiasco / bailout!

http://www.romenews-tribune.com/pages/full_story/push?article-Expert-+Rep-+Graves+gets+-bailout-+on+failed+hotel+venture-+Graves+declines+to+comment%20&id=18017787

http://m.ajc.com/news/in-failed-hotel-venture-1399384.html

Actually Mikael is right. You had a problem with the principal and quite frankly, many do so we sympathize! The answer though is not to bash the school but try to solve that problem and go to corporate. By the way, you also had problems with your CCSD school too and complained a lot about them. Now CCA. You are just one of those parents nobody can please. And I knew you and you were NOT very involved at CCA. Sorry Ashley, you jumped on a liars bandwagon. We all have had a bad experience with someone somewhere, but if you start having problems everywhere, maybe it's time to realize YOU are the problem. Happy weekend all! :)

Mr. Usher can claim he can't vote on something he hasn't had time to read/investigate but he had no such "worries" when it came time to vote on CCA. I sat in the auditorum at Cherokee High School in shock as he, and two other board members insisted they vote even though several board members said they hadn't read the new proposal just handed to them. The vote was called. CCA was voted down. And that is where a lot of this in fighting began.

Usher shouldn't have used the excuse he can't vote on something he hasn't read. I saw him do it and so did hundreds of others that night at Cherokee High School. Usher was trying to delay Dr. P's renewed contract with a poor excuse. Every Board member had the opportunity to review the contract (the same one the man has had for 14 years). Usher was the ONLY one who didn't do his "homework" before he came to the meeting. He doesn't get to cry foul if he isn't doing his job.

Janet Reed has a record that shows she cares about the children of Cherokee County and their education. I can't wait to vote for her.

CCSD test scores would not rank 47th in nation but if we were a "state" we would rank 17th.

Each day CCSD employees are required to "take" a furlough day it represents $1.1 million dollars that can go back into the district budget. Any candidate running for CCSD school board seat should be able to answer where they will find more money that the school board hasn't be able to find for the past four years?

Other metro counties would gladly trade their current budget issues with Cherokee numbers. This budget issue is not just a Cherokee County problem.

As this issue continues to move towards November I am absolutely disgusted by the comments I constantly see. With the exception of a few people posting majority of the comments are insulting, demeaning, rude and nasty. We are adults and as such should be conducting ourselves with some amount of dignity and restraint when debating issues. I have posted several times that regardless of your views on this topic I believe every one in their heart is doing what they feel is best. Why is it that disagreements on issues seem to always result in attacks and disrespect. I personally do not know majority of the people posting on here and would not begin to try and comment on their parenting, their love of children or their personal attributes. I may disagree with their stand on School Choice and would question their reasons for that and the issue on hand. ANYONE on here that is hitting below the belt I ask you to stop and reflect on the way you are behaving. This is a passionate topic, I understand, but be passionate and respectful. Remember that this is about the children of our state and nation, let's set the example for them.

I will be voting for Danny Dukes.

Unlike most of the people commenting on here, I do attend the BOE meetings. We do have some excellent schools, and we have some schools that need improvement. I have not seen the BOE make much effort this past year to make improvements to the quality of education for those schools already here. In fact one BOE member stated that we have schools of excellence and schools of diversity. Implying that as long as diversity is there we don't have to have the quality.

At least the BOE has finally seen the need for school choice by adding the Academies. It took Cherokee Charter Adademy opening for them to see that. Without CCA your BOE would continue to vote down school choice.

Already the presence of CCA has improved the CCSD, yet so many of you continue to complain.

Please watch 60 Minutes this Sunday. Leslie Stahl will be covering Gulen charter schools
Of which Fulton Science Academy is sponsored by. For ANY of those that believe the theirs are conspirousy theorists (@Mikael) running around out there watch the segment. My goodbess , 60 Minutes folks! Time for everyone to WAKE UP!

@Mikael. I see we've moved from "straw man argument" to "red herring". What does your "phrase of the day " calendar show for tomorrow? I'm so excited! I can't wait to find out!

i am voting for Mr Dukes as well. hum CEO's from all over America are still running companies that wouldn't be here now if we hadnt bailed them out. There are politicians in our state capital and in washington who have had tax problems. The bank he ran fell. The government,has as well! hum, Yes, America is bankrupt. Stop beating a dead horse!
Yes, I complained at my childs school, thought it was fixed, they used deception and bait and switch until I asked for records. Im a single mom I do not hv time to be there daily and analyse everything tht is done. They hv a job and they should do it or get fired. They covered it so they wouldnt hv to do their job. You critize those of us. for prochoice like we dont care about ur. children because we want choice. We do care about ll the kids in CCSD we want every family and child to hv a. choice, not just our children. We want every child and teacher succeed in their enviroment. Maybe some. competition will be good!

I would like to draw this debate back to the issues and questions that need to be answered. I appreciate the comments on here that have articles, questions and comments debating the actual issues at hand. That to me is what a debate is all about, the facts and questioning the politicians platform. All other comments are nothing more then attempts to intimidate and anger people. They serve no real purpose. Here are some questions I would like a real answer to, as opposed to go to the office and get the run around.

Questions
- Since local tax dollars are going to continue to go to the district schools regardless of the child being present, does this not represent a profit of income that the district is making off of the children they are being paid to teach not attending their schools?
- Since they are making money to teach the students no longer present does this not help lessen class room size, give additional money to the district and allow the children still present in county schools more money per pupil?
-With the empty school facilities currently in Ga, is it financially responsible to build new facilities as opposed to using the vacant ones for additional space?
- Is it financially responsible to build a new admin building as opposed to budgeting that money for teachers and students when the current building is in perfectly good standing?
- Why is it acceptable for any employee of the county to receive a car allotment as opposed to a mileage per diem for travel and payment for normal wear and tear?
-Explain to me why it is that a parent who has a child failing in public school, has fought for years to get said child the educational needs met to no avail, has a child frustrated and unhappy at the current school chooses to remove that child and try a different option is suddenly anti all county schools and those children.

- What is the breakdown of financial costs from last year on each budgeted item? Please do not tell me to go to the office. They are not very willing to give you the info without trying to charge thousand of dollars.

These are scores from last year. This years scores have not been posted yet.
The Cherokee County School District's combined total average 2011 SAT score is 59 points above the combined total national average scores and 114 points above the state average score! Out of the 406 Georgia high schools reporting 2011 SAT scores, Etowah HS ranked at 26 (top 6%), Creekview at 32 (top 8%), Cherokee at 39 (top 10%), Sequoyah at 47 (top 12%) and Woodstock at 52 (top 13%). 

More or less? Georgia ranks fifth in the nation in the number of college-bound high school students who took the Scholastic Assessment Test, or SAT, this year. In the 10 states with the highest SAT scores, 7 percent or fewer high school students took the test. In Georgia, 80 percent of students took the test. The state ranked 48th in test scores. In Illinois, which led the nation in SAT scores, just 5 percent of students took the test. Unfortunately, Georgia also ranks 10th in scores out of the 13 states and the District of Columbia where there was 70 percent or higher SAT participation. Source: Commonwealth Foundation
Cherokee County HS scores are 59 points above National Average and 114 points above State average. So...Cherokee COunty HS students are well above the state ranking of 47th....closer to 17th in the nation if we could remove the rest of the districts low performers.

Here is a link to CCSD school distict Financial Facts (6pages) summary http://www.cherokee.k12.ga.us/Documents/Financial%20Facts.pdf

It provides a very good summary of the 2012-2013 Budget approval process. It does a good job of showing how various decisions can have long lasting impact. You should check it out.

Charters outspend public schools
By Maria Luisa Cesar
Updated 09:32 p.m., Saturday, May 12, 2012

A recently released report comparing per-student spending found charter schools “substantially” outspending neighboring traditional public schools — challenging the claim that charters achieve higher performance with less money.

While the report acknowledged wide variations in charter school spending, its findings singled out charter networks in New York and Texas that spent at least 30 percent more per pupil than traditional public schools with similar student populations.

“It's not about charters (versus) public schools,” said Bruce Baker, a Rutgers University professor who led the study.

He said the analysis helps pinpoint the costs of charters whose methods include extended teaching days and additional tutoring.

“It doesn't do us any good to pretend these things don't cost money,” Baker said.

Released by the National Education Policy Center at the University of Colorado at Boulder, the report used public and charter school data in Ohio, New York and Texas from 2008 to 2010. School operating expenditures per pupil were compared between school sites with similar student populations.

mcesar@express-news.net

As not-for-profits, the Charter USA schools have to file Form 990 with the IRS each year. Essentially, this is their tax return and it's public information!

For anyone that is interested, you can register with www.GuideStar.org to view search for and review CSUSA's not-for-profit entities financial information...It'll amaze you! For instance, the Lee Charter Foundation paid 21% ($8.8 million) of their revenues to Charter Schools USA and paid $737,095 to Red Apple Development for rent, while paying salaries to school personnel of $15 million and another $5 million to "management". (Source: 2010 Form 990)

CSUSA supporters...if you think CCSD has bloated management, think again! CSUSA has bloated management.

The fact that every question I asked those against Charter schools to address went unanswered is a statement to me that no one actually wants to acknowledge or look into the facts. Frank Jones, I have a question regarding those numbers.....Did that money come from the tax payers? Was it money that would have gone to the public school system? I will have to look these answers up, but those questions are the ones I would like to see answered. In this debate about Charters and about CCSD i would honestly like all the facts. There are many reasons I left my county school. Those issues have not appeared at CCA for my children. I would like to extend an olive branch. The school year is ending next week and this summer will have many debates, changes and educational issues come up. I would like to ask that 1 member of pants, 1 member of Cherokee Citizens for Children, Ashley, Christine meet with me (georgia's voice for educational choice), and 2 other people familiar with charter schools. The other 2 will be parents of children who like yourselves advocate for their kids, just in a different belief. It will not be a political figure or anyone who there is obvious animosity towards. (continued below)

The purpose - for each of us to explain our position, to possibly provide facts regarding the issues and to hopefully allow us to speak with respect and learn to understand why it is we each feel the way we do. Regardless of whether or not we walk away with a different perspective, we need to be able to disagree without the anger and attacks. I am sure there are many facts that both sides are unaware of. What I would like to do also is to have someone email me a list of questions they want answered and I will do the same. perhaps this will help clear up misconceptions. Please let me know if you are willing to do so. Thank you for your willingness to discuss this matter.

Chris & Kara...my point is that Mr. Dukes is running on a platform of financial management and accusatory of CCSD of spending too much. He.s also running on a pro-charter and obviously supports CSUSA. And my point is that per CSUSA'S own Form 990, they charge some of their schools over 20% in management fees... 1 in 5 dollars not going to educate the kids.

CCSD is run more efficiently than that!

Kara...yes, this was public taxpayer money...but still, 20% management fee is excessive!

Let's change the focus for a moment ...

It is amazing how earlier characterizations of CCA parents reference HOW they speak out for their children as "the problem". In case everyone has forgotten, the charter school originally received 2500 requests to participate in the lottery. That sure seems to me a sign of an unhealthy district and many more unhappy parents.

It is unfortunate that the anti-charter crowd on the Patch are really anti-choice with the exception that we can move out of Cherokee County if we don't like (ala Mike Chapman)

I not yet seen Charter parents personally bash and make up statistics and stories to support their claims. Ashley, Frank and others on this thread seem to think (as does Frank P) that they are right and there is no other answer.

continued ...

There are real people getting hurt by this dysfunctional school district every day and just because they care enough to seek a choice instead of continued suffering at the hands of the school administration or district, they are subjected to viscous and slanderous statements about their school, teachers and themselves. Narrow-minded classifications of who "pro-charter" people are, on this thread and others, prove my point that there is no sincere intent by CCSD-only fans to discuss and create a collaborative education environment for all with more than just one option.

If you really care about children, get to know a CCA parent and their story and see the difference it is making in their children - a difference the district was incapable or unwilling to make.

For the record, I am pro-CHOICE, not just pro-charter.

@Mikael...Once again you are wrong with your statement "CSUSA much larger than CCSD". CSUSA's operations are smaller that CCSD's in all but the % of management fees it charges its schools and the number of states in which it operates!

Per their respective websites:

1. CCSD has approx. 4,500 total employess, CSUSA has 2,000
2. CCSD has approx. 38,500 students, CSUSA has 25,000
3. CCSD has 39 schools, CSUSA has 31 charter schools on 27 campuses.

So exactly how is CSUSA larger than CCSD? What's your counterpoint to CSUSA's excessive management fees?

My point is that CCSD operates its schools more efficiently and invests its money in the education of its students.

Ashley, when you attack the charter school, you attack EVERY parent, child, and teacher that works so hard to make it successful. You have yet to provide a single substantive fact regarding mismanagement of charter schools. You continue to harp on this 20% number but do you actually understand it? Do you know enough about how a charter school operates to know what expenses that 20% number contains (if it is actually 20% since Frank and Schoolgirl are the ones who brought it up) ? If you don't know then how can you attack?

I am always willing to respect an educated difference of opinion but I don't see one here. I have read dozens of your posts over the last few months and you are consistent. You attack CCA, Danny Dukes, Kelly Marlow and defend all things district. On top of that, you do so with innuendo and inaccurate information. Your budget assertion of .4 (or 1%) for "district overhead" is just plain wrong and I have pointed that out with data several times. I have the numbers from open.georgia.gov and have done my homework. Just for giggles I will also investigate the 20% number but I am done posting things here ... I'll take it to the public so they know that people are coming to try and steal away their right to choose and protect their own children.

Chris you can look up the Florida charter foundations created by charter schools USA on guidestar.org for free. The tax forms, called a 990, will show you what they pay CSUSA, and it's 20% of their total revenue. The cherokee school will start out lower, but it will be at 20% within 5 years. It's their business model. Plus, the governing board can award CSUSA any "leftover" revenues beyond their budgeted fee. The various foundations are listed on the CSUSA website.

For the record I am very excited about the proposed charter school in Holly Springs, as is everyone else I know. The school is a very unique concept (using sports management and sports to engage children), is a TRUE non-profit, and most importantly working WITH the district to make sure it can meet the high standards set forth by other schools in the district to recieve local funding.

There are a lot of people that would very much like to see this charter school is approved as it will add a unique and vibrant curriculum to the CCSD portfolio and has the potential to really help kids in a very different way. I would not be surprised if this school ultimately received approval from the BOE if for no other reason that they are working with the central office staff to ensure that the charter petition meets their ultimate approval. Very exciting!

Regarding the proposed Charter School, and for that fact the new Academies. Could this be why CCSD teachers have more furlough days next year? If there is no money, and everyone is concerned about the budget, why would you support these schools? It is taking money away from the already established schools in Cherokee County. Just saying......

It's privatization, plain and simple. They are doing nothing to empower teachers and administrators, and there is no evidence to point to cost savings.

You can call it privatization, you can call it choice. If you say privatization - I say "why not?" - when was the last time government did anything better than the private sector? if it's choice - I, like Kelly A., applaud more choices in Cherokee - I would never pick the STEM or the new, proposed charter - based on what I've heard of their narrowly defined curriculum, but if it appeals to other parents, that's great! It all boils down to what we have isn't working - let's find a better way to do it. 8 furlough days is not going to do it - Cobb only has 3 furlough days, Dr. P. should not rest until he figures out a way to get to at least that number! Raise taxes, stop building new schools, treat the budget like this is an emergency - cancel his car allowance, strip down benefits, but keep the teachers on the job - before they find something that pays them what they are worth and they leave the profession altogether.

Again from the Tribune: "Despite the increase in class sizes, a document presented by the district showed that among 10 other metro Atlanta school districts, the Cherokee school system operates with one of the lowest administrative overheads. The district has the highest teacher-to-administrator ratio at 19:1, the lowest percentage of certified personnel serving as administrators, and the second-highest percentage of certified personnel in classroom teaching positions."

Tell me again about the "bloated" central office?

Has anyone read the US News regarding the top 1,000 high schools in the Nation? While there were several of Georgia High Schools listed, not one of them was in Cherokee County. Kind of dilutes the arguement that CCSD is one of the best in the State, much less those that say we compete on a National level. Sad, but true.

I counted 3 Charters in the top 20, do not have time to go through the rest of the 980 right now.

Ashley, you seem to be pretty good countering each statement - please let us know one thing that the government does better than a private entity? My definition of better, by the way, is for the same amount of money with equal or better results. As I mentioned earlier, 8 furlough days (almost 2 weeks of school) from a district that is, at best, average, is not cutting it for me.

The one thing that amazes me most of all is that people don't think. Instead, they try to find one piece of information and hang their argument on it. For instance:

Pro-Charter Group: Charter schools are great and there were 4 charters in the top 20. Cherokee county school district isn't great since it didn't have a single high school in the top 1,000.

However, look a little further and you'll see real information...Yes there were 4 charters in the top 20 but there were 16 government run high schools in the top 20. True, no CCSD school was in the top 1,000 however Woodstock High School was in the top 6.2% of the 22,000 high schools reviewed. That's an "A" no matter how you slice it.

Rankings are nice but not overly informative. For instance, among the top 20 are a lot of STEM and Magnet schools where there are admission requirements (GPA, CogAT, etc). As a result, their outcomes aren't representative of their communities, the population as a whole, or their teaching methods. You also have to look to the demographics of specific communities. You would expect Silicon Valley & Redmond Washington to outperform Atlanta Public School District.

For all of the Government-"Bad" / Business-"Good" people...it isn't a black & white situation. Government does many things better than business and business does many things better than government. It's all about balance. As to our CCSD schools, our local government has done a good job.

Ashley, there is no way CCA costs Cherokee County more per student than a kid at Creekland Middle School. Actually, CCA gave money to CCSD last year, since it took zero of the county's funds. Even if you look at total cost - if you privatize, you completely get rid of all the capital expense (schools, admin offices, infrastructure) and pay one flat fee - I say privatize the entire district. This is really a power struggle - The BOE is very powerful - they can raise and lower taxes at will, and spend the proceeds on things that are important to them (like a new admin building). That kind of power is hard to walk away from, unless you have a kid in the district - which most of them don't.

@Nick...I know you'll beat me up on this one as you probably don't support Medicare and Medicaid; however, these gov't-run programs process & manage these medical claims and services at much reduced costs than private insurance companies. Does fraud happen against the Gov't in the programs? Yes, but it the private sector committing the fraud.

For what it's worth, not all businesses are great, efficient entities that do no wrong. Have you ever heard of: Enron, Adelphia Communications, ZZZBest, Anderson Consulting, Wachovia, Continental Airlines? These were all companies that went bankrupt or committed fraud through management misdeeds.

There is a role for government. There is a role for the private sector. In my opinion, if it is an ongoing endeavor for the common good of the community and society, let a government body run it and be accountable to the people (i.e. schools, public works-water/sewer, parks, health care). If it is a one-time endeavor for the common good, let the private sector do it, but let the government be accountable (i.e. roads, bridges). If it's optional and not for the common good, let the private sector handle it (i.e. manufacturing, retail, etc).

As it relates to public schools, for-profit charter schools aren't the way to go! It diverts money & assets from the public (profits & real estate). Charter results are on par or below traditional schools. Charters aren't as accountable. Charters can fund politicians.

@Frank - you are right, I am not sure why you would support your argument with Medicare, Social Security. I would counter and say that my 401K has made more money in the 10 years I've contributed to it, than my Social Security account, which has been accumulating since I was 18. Full disclosure, my daughter is in a charter. My daughter's CRCT scores went from average last year in CCSD to above average this year in CCA. I like privatization because if it doesn't work, you don't pay for it. Are you saying Dr. Petruzielo is accountable? I think he's doing a poor job. My daughter has been in CCSD schools for 7 years, and never seen him. I can't fire him, reduce his pay, penalize him- that's hardly accountable. And as far as funding politicians - if there was none of that going on, why would the BOE have cared when the local Republican party disowned them earlier this year - my feeling is that there is a lot of outside influence going on - public or private. The best thing about private is that they are incented to give you a quality product. If they don't deliver, you get a new vendor. If the schools are government-run, as they are now, change takes years or generations to come about - in these times where my phone is outdated after six months, that model just doesn't work any more.

@Nick...You avoided my Medicare & Medicaid argument; however, they're sound and fact based if you look. Health care via Medicare and Medicaid is cheaper than traditional healthcare!

Social Security is a social insurance plan. It isn't, and never has been, an Investment Plan like an IRA, 401K, or a traditional retirement plan. As a result, it has ZERO cash value and you may never see a return on investment! That said, the Govt's administration of Social Security is efficient and they're accountable to Congress.

You like privatlization since "if it doesn't work, you don't pay". True, you can withdraw your student and the charter will lose "her" dollars. However, another student may take her place (at a school that doesn't work) and the management company will continue take profits from the public...profits that you continue to fund. And, if you withdraw your daughter, you'll expect CCSD to have space for her.

Dr. P is accountable! The school board hired him and can fire him. You can voice your input by voting for & talking with the local school board. With charter schools, you do not elect the board, hire the principal, or the management company. You have ZERO control.

You argue that the "best thing" about private is that they are incented to give a quality product. That's not exactly true. They are incented to entice parents to enroll their children and then reduce expenses to make $$$. Most teachers are incented by their desire to educate kids.

Sequoyah High School was ranked as the 993 best high school in the U.S. by Newsweek magazine. http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/05/20/america-s-best-high-schools-2012-how-we-compiled-the-list.html

Frank, you are all over the board tonight. I will answer your questions about medicare and medicaid, yes there is fraud. But you want to know what there is more of? Reduction in benefits and fees . More and more physicians can no longer take these government programs because their reimbursement is so low that they are losing money by seeing these patients. Major Atlanta hospitals are considering not taking Medicare and Medicaid patients any longer. What are these seniors who depend soley on Medicare going to do when they cannot find a dr or hospital that will see them do? The answer is not very pretty. Even if these Dr's and hospitals continue to take Medicare, do you know what your out of pocket expenses would be without supplemental coverage? When you get older you get sicker. Medicare reimburses about 60-70% of what they choose to cover. A 70 year old with a heart by pass would cost 300,000-500,000. Even with reduced reimbursements, if he had medicare only he would owe at least 30%, possibly wiping out his savings, if he has any savings.

I would say our school system is working as well as Medicare.

@Kelly...A medicare discussion is off-base for this thread and you've obviously missed the point that I was making to Nick that "medicare operates very efficiently". It is a gov't program that has millions of vendors, 100 million customers, and billions of transactions per year. It runs efficiently and provides a service that corporate America will not, and has not, provided.

Public education, like Medicare, has to work within the funding mechanisms that politicians create. Neither education, nor Medicare, is adequately funded. In the case of medicare, seniors have out-of-pocket expenses (co-pays, co-insurance, & deductibles) that can wipe out savings. In the case of education, teachers aren't getting raises, class sizes are increasing, technology is lagging, and transportation is being cut. Without the foregoing, educational achievement will be lower.

Back to the point, does CCSD run efficiently? Yes. It runs 39 schools, manages 4,500 employees, and provides services to 38,500 children daily. It does so on a shoestring management budget which is well below the 15-20% that CSUSA charges. In addition, we (the public) own the land and buildings that the school system owns (unlike CSUSA which owns the property through private companies). Lastly, our schools are in the top 10-15% in the country.

We don't need charter schools to improve our education. We need parents demanding adequate funding from the state and more involvement by dedicated parents.

3. Sequoyah High is the 28th best high school in Georgia and the 993rd best high school in the nation, according to Newsweek magazine's annual list of top public high schools. The rankings come less than two weeks after U.S. News & World Report used a different methodology to rate Woodstock High 24th in the state and 1,372nd in the nation. Sequoyah High was shut out of that list, while Woodstock High was shut out of the Newsweek list.

No Frank, I did not miss the point, and if you think Medicare operates very efficently I understand why you think CCSD runs efficently. I pointed out why it does not run efficiently, which you missed the point on. I could go on and on regarding the failures of Medicare, but like you said this is not the thread for that. Neither one is working and if we depend on the government to fix it we will be waiting a long long time.

Your comparison is a good one because both are failing the intended parties they are there to help.

The Cherokee County Academies Programs is planned to be "cost neutral" and will start small will the amount of curriculum covered and grade levels involved. It will start with grades third thu fifth at STEM schools (qty 4) and two Fine arts Academies. It will expand each year.

Etowah HS class of 2012 earned over $5.5 million dollars in scholarship money not including HOPE and or Zell Miller! They made neither list but that tells me that is a pretty successful group of graduates.

@Ashley, Frank compared CCSD to Medicare, and I will say that CCSD is more efficient than Medicare, but if we do not start taking some initiative and making some changes they may be in the same boat. Once again, I do not think all CCSD schools are bad. They meet the needs of many children in the county, but is "many" really enough. I get the impression from the posts on this page and words out of board members mouths, that status quo is good enough. I believe we can do better county wide and that is why I would like to see some new faces and ideas on the BOE.

Why do we not have any magnet schools? The top 20 schools are certianly top heavy with those. What an asset that would be.

Most of the blogs arguement is about the money, but CCSD has found the money to create the Academies. It is impossible for that not to cost any additional monies, teachers, transportation, etc. Again I believe that it is a step in the right direction.
We all want what is best for children of Cherokee County, we just believe differently. I want choice and believe "local control" begins with the parents. You have to agree, no one knows what is best for their child better than the parent.

Kelly...efficiency has to do with how you operate with the resources you have. Bloat is using your resources ineffectively.

CCSD doesn't serve many of its student well, it serves the vast majority of its students very well.

We're talking public education, and as such we can't serve all students very well because some students and families have unreasonable expectations. If a family wants a Harvard education, go to Harvard and pay the tuition. If you want a very good education, go to UGA or Tech.

I know of nobody who wants status quo. That would be idiotic. Instead, I know many people who think we can improve our schools without charters. I support magnet schools, classroom assignment based upon academic performance. I support allowing children to skip grades if necessary.

Please tel me/us what ires so magical about charters.

What is so magical about Charter Schools is the smaller classroom sizes, teachers who actual teach (not teach for CRCT only), teachers who actually teach Chapter by Chapter as the book is written not skipping around to cover what they know will be on those stupid state tests. Teachers and faculty who take the time to know their students.Teachers who offer to come in early or stay late to help a student, teachers who go above and beyond what is required when teaching (ie: coming up with creative ways to teach lessons). Teachers who know hands on lessons reinforce lessons verbally taught. Teachers who don't belittle a student who asks a question. A sense of family among the students, NO DRAMA, no bullying, no issues about who's wearing what. Any problems that arise are addressed immediately by administration and taken care of promptly. Administrators who listen to parents concerns and address those concerns immediately. My oldest attended Chapman Intermediate, she had been in "gifted" since kindergarten, always a straight A student. She got to chapman and her grades spiraled, we helped her the best we could w/reteaching assignments at home,we as parents shouldn't have to teach otherwise we would homeschool. We have no problem in assisting our kids, but to have to teach full lesson is not acceptable. We pulled her and put her into CCA. Since being there she is a straight A student, she is no longer afraid to ask questions. Govornor Deal even said CCA is a role model!

How magical? Let me tell you.

My third child had reached the age to attend middle school. I was ready and prepared for her to be basically held in a holding pen for three years with all the other crazed hormonal children. I have experienced middle school with two older children and that is exactly what it was. I mean what do you do with 11-12-13 year olds who think they know everything, have discovered the opposite sex and are trying to figure out who they are. Twice as much time was spent putting out fires than teaching the students. I was still young and believed that the school district knew better than me, after all look at all their experience. Those years were some of the toughest parenting years and partially because of the education they were receiving or as I know now, lack of education they were receiving. While this age is very challenging, I do not believe my children were being challenged. I spent 6 consecutive years with a child in a CCSD middle school and it was exhausting for all of us. continued....

Being a little older now and not having the same energy level, I thought I would try something different with my third child. We had the opportunity to enroll in a local Charter School. Choice is an amazing thing to have when it comes to education. As adults we get to choose what colleges would best fit our needs, how great to have an option to pick a school that fits our children's needs. However, in all honesty I expected what I had already experienced with my older children, a holding pen for a bunch of kids hitting puberty.

With a clinched jaw I was ready for the first "I hate this school, my teachers aren't fair, I have to much homework, etc." As of today, with one day left of school I am still waiting but no longer have a clinched jaw. I paid attention not to just my child but all the children, the teachers were encouraging them, rather than constantly being critical. They were able to find something that each child could do well and would accentuate that ability which would encourage the child to do more. Imagine that, the kids wanting to do more school work to impress their teacher. My daughter was continuing to learn and liking it and she was not alone. She was thriving and still is. This age group still has its problems, but these teachers were able to make those crazed incidents into teachable moments. continued

Not many parents can say 6th grade has been the best school year yet, but I can for both of us. She has been accepted into Cambridge, which is an excellerated learning plan which will allow her to soar academically. She is excited about it. 12 years old and excited about a more challenging education, more homework, and what that will ultimitely bring her. What is up with that?? My daughter has always hated Science, this year it is her favorite subject. Math has always been an effort, but for the first time she understands what she is doing rather than doing a problem, getting the right answer, but having no clue what she has accomplished. How magical is that?

You said it Frank, if you want a good education go to UGA or Tech. You have a choice!

I am speaking from personal experience

Kelly A., that is a clear and detailed response to what makes your chosen school better. I have been waiting for an answer like that for months. Thank you.

So what did CCA do to combat the hormones and "growing pains" that make middle schoolers difficult? That is a fact of biology, not the school you attend. It doesn't matter if you're in a school of 800 or 8,000, the drama (and yes, Gator Mom, there is drama with kids no matter where you go, whether there is one kid or 100), the difficulties will still be there.

And the characterizations of public school teachers in some of these posts is offensive to me as a former public school teacher. To imply or state outright that those teacher are somehow less caring, devoted, and capable because they don't teach in a charter school is wrong, wrong, wrong. I offered extra help. I taught in a variety of ways, to make learning fun and to address learning styles. I didn't belittle my students for asking questions. Stop painting with such a doggone broad brush. It really doesn't help your argument.

As for " teachers who actually teach Chapter by Chapter as the book is written not skipping around to cover what they know will be on those stupid state tests. "- the charter kids have to take those same "stupid state tests" so I hope their teachers DID in fact cover what was on them. Charter schools don't get to opt out of assessments, so blame the state, not teachers or the Board for that. I hate teaching to the test as much as the next parent. Hopefully with the NCLB waiver that will be less of a problem, although I fear the new "value added" approach is just as test-heavy.

Wow, it is just no wonder people think this site is a joke. People like Mikael continue to offer insulting responses with no basis in anything besides a perverse need to be mean. Then there are others that refuse to read what is written. Kelly A. didn't blame the teachers in her post. She recounted her personal experiences. You might not agree with her conclusions, but you have no right to attack her experiences. Open your minds. Stop talking about all the money and failure. BOTH TYPES OF SCHOOLS ARE DOING SOME THINGS RIGHT. This board ought to be about learning what those things are, combining them and demanding they be provided for our children AND our teachers. Oh, and, no, I do not have children at a charter school. I do have children in CCSD. My children are being served very well in some areas. They are not in others. Fighting about the same issues over and over and over isn't helping. Why can't we just stick to talking about what we think is working instead of making this an endless fight about one particular charter? You can't figure out what something costs or who is best equipped to provide it unless you first figure out what the "IT" is. The "IT" is what is being lost in every discussion on this board.

This has nothing to do with the topic as a whole, but why was the story on Cherokee Charter's principal changing grades pulled today? Reliable sources say CSUSA was brought in to investigate ethical wrong doings,not limited to changing of grades, of Principal Suarez. More than 35 members of its local staff came forward with documentation and complaints yet they chose to fire 5 people none of which did anything wrong.

Julie, you are absolutely correct - your post has NOTHING to do with this topic. Unfortunately, that didn't stop you from posting it anyway - so much for restraint? "Reliable Sources" - would this be the Woodstock Patch? or is "reliable" something you saw on Facebook?

Nick, actually no. If concerned parents of Charter students were to demand answers from CSUSA's Human Resources Dept, they should be able to get honest answers. Although since CSUSA is a private company, they will likely not get honesty just a "no comment".

and Julie, you are a concerned Charter parent? Just curious what grade your child is in? Mine is in 7th.

@Rodney, I didn't use an alias. I used the user name your site allowed me to input when I signed up. I apologize if you took my comment about the site to mean I find the site a joke. I should have said the message boards are a joke. There is talk in the community about the message boards being a joke. It has some basis in reality. You allow folks like Mikael to repeatedly insult people but do not reprimand them. Furthermore, if you'll re-read my comment, I did encourage people to move the conversation forward. Nearly every school or board of education story on the site is littered with the same arguments. I stand by what I said. People aren't helping or attempting to learn from each other. They are beating the same arguments to death.

Ashley, teachers did beat down the doors of CSUSA a few months ago and disclosed all of this and more. Unfortunately there was no public apology made to teachers as promised, just a forget what you said attitude. Don't misunderstand, the staff of CCA is wonderful, they have all worked very hard all year long to educate and make a difference. The problem is CSUSA doesn't understand that a leopard can not change its spots. Investigate and speak to teachers they won't lie.

I find it largely offensive Julie that you commented on a grade changing story having to do with CCA since there was NO such story. Actually it was a letter posted as a blog that this may be occurring and you were the author of that letter. There was and is NO evidence of this having occurred and came conveniently 1 day after several teachers contracts were not renewed for next year. What I also find disturbing is that you would send a slanderous letter without providing any proof. In the future please do not come on to a message board and try to in site an uproar over false accusations and lies. What you stated is not an opinion it is slander and disrespectful to the children who worked for those grades and the teachers who taught.

I would like to apologize now for the previous outburst. Those of you who know me on here and from here know that I typically try and keep my comments on topic and regarding the issue in a non-aggressive and civil manner. However I take this accusation personal as I would regardless of the school this was thrown at because there is no basis for it. I believe that teachers and students should not have their reputations tarnished as the result of vindictiveness. Opinions and experience on the issues of school choice, charters and CCSD is one thing, but lies that could damage lives is another.