Lower than expected enrollment and lack of available funding have contributed to a $1.3 million budget shortfall at the county's first charter school.
That revelation came to light during a Wednesday evening meeting of the Cherokee Charter Academy Governance Council, according to a report in today's Cherokee Tribune.
Though 995 students were selected to be part of the school's inaugural class during a May lottery, only 700 enrolled during the school's first week. (Attendance increased to 825 students, school officials told Canton-Sixes Patch in November.)
With 19 days to go before the start of the 2011-12 school year, no one knew if the school would open.
A May 16 Supreme Court of Georgia ruling dissolved the commission that approved Cherokee Charter Academy and 15 other state-commissioned charter schools. The school turned to the Cherokee County Board of Education for approval, but members rejected the charter's petition for a third time on June 24. The state Board of Education approved Cherokee Charter Academy as a state-chartered special school just days later. However, the school didn't have $2.9 million in local funding it would have received as a district-approved or state-commissioned charter school. State-chartered special schools, the designation the state BOE gave to Cherokee Charter Academy and eight other former state-commissioned charter schools, weren't eligible for it. They had to find alternate funding sources.
It wasn't until July 14 that the state announced the funding that made it possible for Cherokee Charter Academy to open.
Erin Hames, Gov. Nathan Deal's deputy chief of staff of policy, told Canton-Sixes Patch that the school received a "direct appropriation" of one-time funds totaling approximately $1.6 million from Deal for this school year.
Although Cherokee Charter Academy received money from the state to open its doors this year, Hames said the school will need to come up with its own funding in the future.
If approved, legislation that cleared the Georgia House of Representatives and the Senate's Education and Youth Special Sub-Committee would allow Georgians to vote on a proposed constitutional amendment to restore the state's power to approve charter schools.
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Where do public officials stand on the proposed charter school amendment?
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Adria Smith
10:18 am on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Lack of enrollment? We have kids on waiting lists...
Holly Samuel
10:33 am on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Yeah...I doubt we would put or approve this negative publicity at this crucial time for our school. Very telling of opposition if you ask me.
Amy L
10:34 am on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Yes their own board members say they are short. The projected enrollment was 995. They may have waiting lists on a couple of grade levels but one higher grade level only has 7 or 8 students.
Adria Smith
7:36 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Amy L, where are you getting your misinformation? There is NO grade with only 7 or 8 students!!
Adria Smith
10:36 am on Thursday, March 1, 2012
This article fails to mention many of the wonderful attributes of our school. If it weren't a money issue, and more was being written about our outstanding parents, teachers, programs, etc.... one would be STUPID to argue the need for a school like CCA in Georgia!
Rodney Thrash
10:45 am on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Adria, Holly: Patch has no stake in this issue. We run items all of the time about the wonderful things happening at Cherokee Charter Academy. At our request, Lyn Michaels-Carden posts announcements about student achievements inside and outside of the classroom. Most recently, she posted this one: http://canton-ga.patch.com/announcements/its-full-court-press-at-cherokee-charter-academy We've even invited a member of the council to become a Local Voices columnist on all three Cherokee County Patch sites. You write about whatever you want, whenever you want. That member has declined repeated offers to trumpet Cherokee Charter's accomplishments in this space.
Cassandra Miles
2:20 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
All the programs you mention are at a cost. Ballet, guitar, art, sports ALL COST INDIVIDUALLY. So your school only allows your child to participate at a cost. If parents in CCSD can afford to send their child to ballet, guitar, mandarin classes, they too can PAY for private lessons just like the parents at CCA who have children taking these lessons.Just another lie. Check it out people. The individual activities and costs are listed for CCA students. The only thing free at CCA is the ride they want to take on the back of the taxpayers and students of CCSD.
Amy L
10:55 am on Thursday, March 1, 2012
There's another article with quotes from your own people. Try reading it before you assume no one made a statement.
http://cherokeetribune.com/view/full_story/17700856/article-Cherokee-Charter-is-facing--1-3M-budget-shortfall-?instance=home_news_1st_right
I'm not stupid and I know there's no need for the school. I have children in Cherokee County and I'd never put them in CCA. CCA doesn't offer a single thing that isn't already provided by CCSD.
Maly
2:03 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
No? CCA doesn't offer ANYTHING!!!! that CCSD doesn't. Hummmm.... I have a 2nd grader who has special needs learning CCSD pushed her to the back burner..... and told me everything is alright and we don't do that testing in kindergarten.. WRONG! My child is taking Spanish in the 2nd grade... hummm is yours???? Yeah.. I didn't think so..... My child is offered after school enrichment activities at the school like hummm ballet basics, Chorus, Mandarin, Spanish, book club, video game making, guitar lessions, drama, band, Salsa dancing, Art.... I don't think I need to list further..... Our parents are very involved at the school and we volunteer in and out of the class. We have raised a lot of money as well for our wonderful school and teachers. We have probably the best teachers in Cherokee County. Our teachers are loving, foward thinkers, energetic, paid by student progress and not on a merit system... so if they fail to teach they go instead of remaining and giving poor service to our children and sucking up tax dollars. Our teachers are not afraid to think out of the box and they teach to each individual child. My child hated school last year and the year before but now she thrives, under the blessing that is Cherokee Charter. My child is also offered PE... oh and she loves her PE coaches, and art... do not talk about what you do not know! I have done both, and believe me I choose CCA!
R.L. Federalist
6:12 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Maly - as the parent of a special needs child, I am sincerely glad that your child is doing well in CCA. My special needs child is doing EXCEPTIONALLY well at a CCSD school and I'm sorry you didn't have the same experience.
A quick question, though: You say " Our parents are very involved at the school and we volunteer in and out of the class. We have raised a lot of money as well for our wonderful school and teachers."
Do you think, just maybe, the CCA parents had put the same efforts into volunteering and fundraising with CCSD as they have with CCA, your experience may have been a little different?
Maly
12:22 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
Cassandra, that is correct these classes are at a cost to the parent. The convience of the student leaving from the class and taking one of these other classes is wonderful and enriches our children, rather than sticking the kids in ASP so they can play we choose to do this with our children. Plus, as a working single mother It is very hard for me to get my child from school to these other activities and this makes it easier for me and my child as well. CCSD doesn't offer any of this to their children or families. Also..... if you look up the cost you will see they they are a LOT cheaper than it would be for me to put my child in Ballet outside of the school. I was paying $85.00 a month plus registration every year somewhere else and it is much cheaper at the school. We are not receiving any money from CCSD for our funding for CCA, if you really want to evaluate everything technically CCSD is using my money and my childs fathers tax money to put towards your childs education... hum, now how is that fair? Why can't my child have a chance at an education that is benefiting her and is better for her. Why should she suffer because CCSD believes that one size fits all. We all know that it doesn't other wise everyone would be forced to wear a size 6 in clothes and shoes rather than the be able to wear something that fits them and their personallity. What is so wrong with us wanting a better Choice for our children? Do you hate our children so much u would deny them this?
Adrienne Slade
11:30 am on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Isn't it great to have a CHOICE of how our kids are educated? I love CCA and am so grateful to be able to make the decision for my own family instead of being told which school my kids must attend based solely on my residence and not any individual factors. Enrollment is lower than anticipated because of the delayed opening. Many parents were reluctant to switch schools for their kids 2 weeks into the new school year. Looking forward to a full year next year!
nancy
12:50 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Although I do not have children on elementary level I think that it is about time that parents had a choice of where to send thier children. I wish it would have been an option for me when I had to not buy my dream home because it would mean putting my children in a school that academically did not meet my expection. Amy understand that this is about ALL children in 2012 and ALL children in 2062. Is a charter school the solution for all children, no, but how wonderful to live in a land that allows us not only the freedom to vent in a newspaper but for each parent to be allowed to do what they think is in the best interest of thier child. The problem here is that everyone wants to live in the present which is why even the economy is what it is. We forget that the future is what we need to fight for.
Dr. B
11:07 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
How magnanimous of you to give up a material pursuit for your children. In some cultures, that would be expected not lauded.
Melissa
12:55 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
If you look at the date - this number was only in the first week of school. Do you have the figures of the CURRENT enrollment? This is a very misleading title. And Amy, I am so happy that your children are successful at CCSD! Personally, we love CCA and my child is thriving there. This is about the success of the students and their future. A student succeeding, no matter at which school, is the point. Giving a choice in education to parents, because not every student can succeed in a public school environment. Without really knowing what CCA is all about, having a child enrolled there, knowing what programs they offer, and really being involved with the admin and staff, it's a bit unfair to be so negative to the school. Keep an open mind, forget the dollar signs. We should all be on the same side of fighting for a better education for our children - not "My school is better than your school".
nancy
1:00 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Well said.
Rodney Thrash
1:15 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Melissa and Nancy: Please follow the links in the story. Cherokee Charter parents revealed this information at a meeting on Wednesday. We're merely reporting what happened. Should we not report this just because it's not "positive" news? How would you have told this story differently? Again, we run items all of the time about the wonderful things happening at Cherokee Charter Academy. When CCA was fighting to open its doors in time for the start of the school year, we ran letters to the editor from your fellow CCA parents. Unfortunately, no one ever acknowledges the letters, stories, announcements and more that highlight all that CCA has to offer.
Rodney Thrash
1:19 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
And this line has been added: (Attendance increased to 825 students, school officials told Canton-Sixes Patch in November.)
Amy L
1:20 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Love how you assume I don't know more about your school, havent been there, or know about your so called great programs. We all know more about your school than you'd like. Why don't you just call it like it was for so many of you.....You didn't like your kids going to school that were more diverse. You didn't like the poor kids and the Hispanics. You see I am well aware of what many of you all said when you were fighting for it to open and you thought others wouldn't hear you. Find a school that actually offers something different that will actually benefit kids and you'll have tons of support.
Maly
2:15 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Amy, again you know not what you talk about here. My child has diversity in her class and school, as a matter of fact she has more diversity in this school than she did the last one. She is going to school with african american children, asian children, mixed race children, and even developmentally disabled children. Who, oh by the way, also thrive there. She actually has several special needs children in her class with her, and you know what, we love them all! Everyone is gifted at CCA. Everyone can apply at CCA. Our children are taught about the different cultures and to respect them. Our children were selected by a lottery not by anything else, if you number was drawn, you were in. I do believe that CCSD is opening their own special charter schools or whatever they are going to be called. Not every child will be able to go to these school... you will have to have certain grades and abilities to get in, so they are doing we will be selective process. Your tax dollars and mine will go to fund these school, which is fine because we need something like that. We needs children to be foward thinkers and able to achieve higher than they are in the normal classroon settings. They are our future and right now our future is bleak! We rank 48th in the nation, which is horrible! I want more for my child and you shouldn't fault me or any parent for this. Our school does benefit lots of kids you just do not see it. My child is benefiting from this school!
Adria Smith
9:07 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
and to add, I provided the Christmas Around the World program for my daughter's entire grade and when I volunteered, I was amazed at all of the cultures represented.
Adria Smith
9:10 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Wow, this sounds pretty racist Ms. Amy. And I must absolutely beg to differ with you as there are more cultures being represented at CCA than any school my child has attended in Cherokee or Fulton County. In my daughter's class, we have hispanic, russian, jewish, african american, asian, south african, just to name a few....
Melissa
1:34 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Thank you, Rodney for posting the more recent enrollment. I appreciate all the Patch has done in support of CCA. I have no problem with the articles you post, positive or negative. News needs to be reported, I just wondered what the current enrollment was. And Amy, I think you are taking a very low road by saying all the parents in support of school choice and CCA are racists. You have NO idea what are ethnic backgrounds are, where we come from, or even who we are! (We being the people commenting in this thread) I can tell you that CCA is diverse. My son's class is not all "upper class white kids". If you had a child enrolled at CCA and you left unhappy, then that is your issue with CCA. Not every educational outlet is the best for every child. Education is not a "one size fits all". Many parents have issues with CCSD. Some have vocalized them, others have not. I for one have not bashed CCSD. I can only speak to the experience we have had at CCA and the school district in another state we moved from. If you haven't had a child at CCA, how can you really speak so low of the school? That is the point I was making. CCA benefits MY child. CCA may not benefit every child, hence our support in school choice.
Cassandra Miles
2:33 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
I know that we heard the comments of the parents supporting CCA at the auditorium at Cherokee High School. Parents were openly stating they couldn't even invite their child's classmates to birthday parties because they were Mexicans. I know they openly stated they were tired of the "those" kids with special needs holding back their child in class. I know that the disrespectful remarks about the teahers were wrong. The teachers in the public schools have more advanced degrees in education than the teachers at CCA on a whole. Their degrees and qualifications aren't secret. You're free to verify their qualifications, unlike CCA lack of transparency....and please stop assuming I'm a teacher or a parent. I'm retired so I volunteer at the public schools and I too have a right to say where my tax dollars are spent. The remarks being made by a large number of the CCA parents were shocking and were made with their children standing right there with them listening to all of it.
Gwen
1:39 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
What I find interesting is the number of children who went to CCA this year and are ALREADY BACK at CCSD, many within the first few months. Is it really such a great school? Why have so many already left CCA?
Kelly A.
3:44 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
@Gwen, Every child has different educational needs. Just like CCSD is not a fit for every child, neither is CCA. That is why choice is so important.
Maly
2:45 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Gwen, if CCSD is so great why has so many left CCSD? I think more have left CCSD than have left CCA. Charter is not for everyone, we have rules and guidlines we have to follow and some of this was just to much for the parents or child. We do not fault them if they return. They are doing what is best for their child and family, but what is wrong with choice? Why can't I choose for my child like they were able to? Why are they better than me? They chose! They tried CCA and didn't like it, choice! I tried CCSD and didn't like it! Choice. What is so wrong with that? I pay taxes and my child can't even benefit from them. My school according to this post is in debt due to them not receiving the tax money that I and other parents pay, CCSD gets this money and they get the SPLOST. How much are they in debt for? I believe it is for more than we are. One other point... This morning I was leaving Kroger at HF it was 11:40 am. There just happened to be a school bus which is number 542 in front of me. She, the driver, pulled up in front of Dos Margaritas and dropped of 5-6 adults for them to go in and eat. She then left and proceeded down the street and parked her bus and went into the eatery there. I do believe that gas for those buses is over $4.00 a gallon and it is pretty expensive to drive them around. Yet the driver is driving our school buses transporting adults, other bus drivers??? to go eat. Why can't they park the bus and drive their cars? Misuse of money!
Angry Mom
3:51 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
All those of you who are condeming the Patch for the negative publicity of your charter school are the very same parents that had NO PROBLEM telling everyone and anyone how bad the CCSD was. What goes around comes around.....
Mikael R Kient
11:34 am on Friday, March 2, 2012
fact remain despite your idiomatic comments without truth, CCSD is a bad school system mismanaged from the top down. Teaching just to pass the Crct is not education this is regurgitation study. I find that at most charters the CRCT is the minimum, where as at CCSD schools it is the ceiling.
Christine
5:15 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
This is not new information. As a matter of fact, this information was made public at the Board of Directors' meeting of the Cherokee Charter Academy System Local Governing Council Board in November, 2011. I'm fairly certain the reason you are just now hearing about this is because there wasn't a reporter from the Cherokee Tribune present at that particular meeting. I happen to know this, because I was in attendance of that meeting. The fiscal issues of CCA were discussed in great detail at the November meeting. I attended 2 Local Governing Council meetings, September and November. I found it interesting and sad that of the 800 plus students enrolled, there were only 2 parents that attended the September meeting and 3 parents total that attended the November meeting. I urge all CCA parents to attend these meetings and be sure to ask questions...I did!
Jennifer
5:32 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Parents thinking about enrolling their children in CCA should also know how many students are in each class and each grade level. KNOW...don't just ask. It's a fact that some of the classes are severely overloaded and that's for the younger students too, who would at least have an assistant teacher in a public school. Don't think the teachers are CCA are more qualified than those in the CCSD either. There's no transparency with CCA or you would be able to see the qualifications of their teaching staff and compare the qualifications of the CCDS teachers. The Cherokee County BOE has no problem telling you the number of children in each class in each grade. What are those numbers for CCA? Oh yeah, they don't give out those numbers either.
Pete
10:40 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Jennifer, I KNOW how many students are in my class and my school. It is public knowledge and often talked about in parent meetings with the school. There is more transparency here, than I ever experienced at my other school. I am sure that CCSD has a overwhelming majority of higher degreed personnel than CCA does. A lot of the teaching staff is young and new teachers. It is in the handbook that anyone can request the certification and educational backgrounds of any staff member of the school. I know, because I did that at the beginning of the year. I have no idea if my child will out perform his past school in the tests. I do know, that he seems happier and is thriving at this school. If it ever becomes the case where it changes, we will seek other avenues. I welcome all options brought to this county to have that choice!
Mikael R Kient
11:35 am on Friday, March 2, 2012
Jennifer you are factually incorrect, i suggest you seek alliterative sources than the confirmation biased ones you have been reading thus far.
Christine
5:46 pm on Saturday, March 3, 2012
As a former CCA parent, I wholly agree with what Jennifer has said!
Amy L
5:51 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
You know what is so funny.....no one would've said anything about your precious school but as usual you all get on here throwing a fit. It wasn't a bad story. Simply that your numbers are lower than expected. So you start bashing Rodney for reporting the facts. Say what you want about your so called diversity. The fact is I know some of you pretty well so you can dress it up pretty but it doesn't change the truth. Yes you have a few people of different ethnicities but percentage wise you know it's not the same. I'm also well aware of the "additional programs" you have for a fee. Anything CCA can do to make a buck right? They are about profit, not the students. You all think you can bash and bully anyone but that doesn't work. Wow, great example for your own kids and the students of CCA. If you are happy, great....stay at CCA and stop being negative to Rodney for reporting the facts of a story.
Adria Smith
9:16 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
As the one who made the 1st comment, I was by NO means bashing anyone. I don't remember mentioning anyone's name...I actually try to stay out of the politics because I am so in love with my daughter's teacher and the education my daughter is getting that I try to keep that separate. It just struck a chord with me and I actually had a conversation with someone on the board for CCA after reading the article. My apologies to anyone who felt as though i was bashing anyone...
Concerned Mom
6:29 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Why the need to attack the reporter who is doing his job? Why the need to act as if his article was some attack on the CCA. I am sure those parents who support the CCA and are so thrilled with the many and numerous things offered (for a fee) by CCA can pony up and just get their precious kids in more ballet basics, Chorus, Mandarin, Spanish, book club, video game making, guitar lessions, drama, band, Salsa dancing, Art.... need I go on. Your school is a "for profit" school, the parents should get busy making a profit for it I guess. As a parent at CCA you are REQUIRED to volunteer, maybe if you had spent as much time volunteering in the public schools your child and many other children would have a better experience.
Adria Smith
9:20 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
As I mentioned earlier, and as the person who made the 1st comment, I was in no way bashing the reporter. That was the furthest thing from my mind. It just struck a chord with me today~ and as the after school art enrichment teacher { own program, not CCA's }, I am by NO way making a profit. : )
Pete
10:36 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Concerned Mom,
My locally districted schools offered enrichments that we had to pay for as well. Why the difference? The enrichment fees cover the cost of materials and instruction, and do not provide a profit to the school. There are clubs and other things that do not have associated cost. It is pretty in line with what we experienced at our CCSD school. The idea that CCA is a "for profit" school is not true any more that you would label CCSD as a "for profit" school system. For the record, my son is precious, just as I imagine your children are. I don't feel I am any different or better than others because I go to CCA and I have not heard that spoken amongst the families here. Why do you assume that is the case?
Kelly A.
8:04 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
I think Amy is confused who brought up "diversity". It was in fact the school board who stated in a board meeting that they had schools of excellence and schools of diversity. That statement alone implies that the CCBOE believes there is a difference. We came from a school that had little diversity and are so happy that CCA has it throughout the school.
What CCA offers us that we did not get before is a personal learning plan. Each child learns at their own pace. We feel all children are gifted and our teachers find out the "gift" in each child. This allows the children to excel at their pace, and with gained confidence the children excel in other classes as well. Our teachers are allowed to think outside the box. The Cambridge education program will be offered to our middle school and it is free.
As far as the budget goes, CCA is doing fine and will be open next year. Some of you anti CCA folks appear bitter. Our kids are important to, and we are trying to provide them with an education that fits their needs.
Rodney, I do believe that you give CCA a fair shake when it comes to reporting, but I think that had a couple of sentences been added (which are factual) it would have changed the tone of this article.
I also want to say that CCA is all about the student. As I previously stated all our children are gifted, and we make sure they know it.
Amy L
8:41 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
@ Michael, I do know some of the parents of CCA personally. I've heard the way they talk about not wanting to go to school with the Hispanics. I think it's just reached a point of so many of us being tired of how these parents handle themselves. It's sad that they preach "we are for the kids," while spewing such hate. It's too hard for them to handle the fact that we aren't all going to agree. Like I said, I'm pleased you like it there. Stay there. Next time an article comes out that isn't glowing get over it. Boo hoo...a couple of sentences were not worded how you liked it. Rodney did his job and many of us think it's ridiculous that people started in on him about the article.
Dr. B
9:04 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Agreed. CCA "chose" to not produce registration and parent information materials in any language other than English. This move inadvertently discriminated against children who families speak English as a non-native language. Purposeful or not, choices like this offer negative perceptions. CCA takes public money, in the form of maintenance agreements, facility upkeep, and insurance, all of which are CCSD funds. CCA would, therefore, be prohibited from violating federal and state statutes in terms of language access.
Pete
10:29 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Dr. B, I do not know that to be a fact. All of our communication on progress reports and report cards are in both english and spanish. I believe I have seen other documentation with that as well.
Mikael R Kient
11:38 am on Friday, March 2, 2012
El Dr. B, no sé que es un hecho. Toda nuestra comunicación sobre los informes de progreso y boletas de calificaciones están en Inglés y Español. Creo que he visto otra documentación con la que a su vez.
Verdad!
Frank Jones
8:54 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
What most you school-choice/charter zeolots ignore is that charter schools by default aren't better than traditional schools. Many studies have shown that most charter schools perform at either the same level or WORSE than traditional schools! As to the attendance level at CCA, if the demand for the school was/is so great, why isn't the school full? Answer, the school isn't that great nor is the demand. As to the budget, true CCA doesn't receive the county share per student but has received disproportionate state funding. In addition, CCA hasn't been providing bus services, something that Cherokee County does offer at great expense! And if charter schools are so efficient as the backers claim, they should have no trouble operating on lower per-student funding!
Now with that said, do I believe that CCSD is perfect? No! Do I believe that there should be no charter schools anywhere? No! However, if you look at the facts of Cherokee County, (forget the rest of the state) our schools are among the top in the state and across the country. Unlike what Chip Rogers and other zeolots are telling you, our schools aren't broken! And if you were somewhat educated and could do critical thinking, you realize that.
Maly
12:42 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
Fank, that is wonderful that CCSD have been great for your child/children yes every school is going to have its faults and problems, I totally agree with you. There is no such thing as a perfect school. CCA, as much as we love it has its problems as well. I would love for my child to be able to ride a bus to and from school but we do not have the funding for this. Our school isn't full because we didn't know if we were going to have a school at all. The students that were selected for our school started at CCSD before we really knew we were going to be able to do this. They... and I can totally understand why didn't want to pull their children out of these classes they had been in for the last 2 weeks to restart somewhere else. I understand this. I believe we would be full as you say... if we were approved in the beginning and not had such uncertainty with this. They applied for CCA so obviously they wanted a change for their child and they realized something was broken at their current schools. If you look at the facts our children are doing better! They are happier, which means the world to me and every other parent . I can follow my childs grades and communicate with her teacher via SIS daiily. We are also obviously operating on lower per-student funding as you say. After all your school is getting my money and my school isn't.
Mikael R Kient
2:37 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
Ashley,
Again you are factually incorrect. Voucher do work and are working right now in other school system. A Google search of Belgium vouchers system will show you that fact.
http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-lafayette/belgium-beats-our-government-run-educational-system-by-re-learning-the-american-way
Dr. B
9:08 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
As a parent of an identified gifted child and grade skipper, I declined our invitation to CCA. The administrator I spoke with was only concerned about our adding to her numbers and was completely uninterested in providing me with details about what her school could do for my child. I am sure you all think your children are special, and in some ways I am certain they are. But for truly gifted children, CCSD provides a much more rigorous and multi-faceted curriculum in both AIM and accelerated coursework.
Pete
10:26 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Dr. B, my child is bright and special and he is gifted. In all honesty, I am glad that you were afforded a choice for your child. I am happy to hear that you pursued all options available to you. And as his parent, I am certain you CHOSE the right place for him/her. Let's provide the same respect to those parents who CHOSE a different path, and wish them all the same successes.
Dr. B
11:04 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Pete,
I would absolutely support a choice of educational environment, but not, however, when public funds are used to pay for such an environment that does not think it is accountable for those public funds. CCA's charter does require CCSD to fund maintenance of facilities and insurance, both of which take funding away from other CCSD projects. It is my understanding that the original registration materials for CCA were only provided in English. I do not know anything of the report cards.
Kelly A.
7:07 am on Friday, March 2, 2012
Dr B you could not be more wrong. I am a mother of 3 "truely" gifted children. Two of them are out of school, one is a medical dr, the other is about to graduate with her phd in physical chemistry. The Phd never brought home a book and she was never challenged. I was forced to find alternative education for her. My youngest is at CCA and they are meeting her academic needs. CCA is bringing in the Cambridge program next year which you should check out. Every child is different, CCSD has some great schools who are great fits for many children, I will go toe to toe with anyone who wants to question CCA's education for "truely" gifted children.
holly samuel
9:15 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Rodney: I am very sorry if my comment made you feel attacked. I do not know you, and I do not know all of the financial facts. However, I feel certain that at this crucial time for our school we would not have invited media to a town hall to only report on the budget.
To the RIDICULOUS AND IGNORANT person who posted about the diversity at CCA. You know what? It's not even worth my time to give you the benefit of responding (our principal and assistant principal alone are of diverse backgrounds, so you speak not of what you know).
To the people concerned with who has more certified teachers...OBVIOUSLY if you don't LOVE your job or if your focus on teaching is replaced by a focus on passing a test and meeting mandates forced down to accomodate those who complain and every time they complain, then it doesn't matter who has more certification. This seems like a stretch to "sell" why CCSD is better than CCA. When I was in CCSD, every single year when the teacher cards were sent home during summer, oh boy how fast the word spread about who got which teacher and why they didn't want them. Just sayin', maybe you should poll the parents to see if they really care about certifications or if they care more about how much time the teacher spends with their child before you try to "sell" it like that. That's really funny.
holly samuel
9:21 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
And to the person who thinks that CCA doesn't offer anything that CCSD doesn't offer...while your child is celebrating Sock Day, Crazy Hat Day, GAme Day, Movie Day, and whatever other day is created at the end of the year for an entire two weeks without any books because the kids already turned them in and the teachers are done teaching because CRCT's are done, my child is still nose in book with homework and curriculum. And while your child is being graded on a curriculum item on a report card but without the curriculum (such as handwriting, music and art) my child is learning it. Oh...but CCSD has more certification...ashame that they don't use it and it's taken right out of their hands by the governments ridiculous measures of success!!! And while CCSD is giving out multiple choice tests, CCA is giving out fill in the blank and essays (even in the lower grades) and without the EXACT test as the study guide the night before. And while CCSD closes the books for two weeks to prepare for CRCT (because God forbid you rely on those teachers with the more certificates to feel confident that their teaching all year long is going to pay off), my child is still nose in book with homework and curriculum! And while your child is eating snack and gossiping and playing, my child is eating snack and listening to a novel read out loud in class. While the children in CCSD are distracted by material things, my child has one less distraction by wearing a uniform. Should I go on?
Adria Smith
10:27 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
yes, Holly, please go on. : )
Maly
12:45 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
Holly, I do not think it could be said any better.
"The Real Deal" Education Advocate
1:16 pm on Monday, March 5, 2012
Holly - way to lay it out !!! Funny how those in the CCSD (like Ashley and several other Dr. P fearing Teachers First, Parents 2nd on this board) who will admit the above yet still fight against the right for a child to have this opportunity at CCA, because it is not provided by "them" or under their "control." Parents are the real "local control" and are the ones who provide 100% of the funding as the TAXPAYERS.
Adria Smith
9:24 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
48th in the nation....I think everyone deserves a CHOICE based on that alone!!
holly samuel
9:26 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Now...I realize that ALL OF OUR CHILDREN deserve the best. So let's all man up and admit that CCSD (and honestly the rest of Georgia's education system) is not doing all it can be doing! Sorry that I had to retaliate, but don't knock CCA or it's advocates for caring about their children's education!!!!
Frank Jones
9:28 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
@Michael...Yes, my opening statement shows my prejudice. I admit it! However, everyone here has a bias and prejudice, even you. Why call me out on it and not the school choice/charter supporters? Answer...You are biased. If you want to argue my points, go ahead...counter my claims! I offer no revision!
Mikael R Kient
12:20 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
Frank: Let me help you out as well.
Simple you are factually incorrect on the majority of your statements. Your continued hyperbole of the subject shows that you do not care about facts, just spread of conjecture and misinformation or talking points that you have been provided. My prejudice is for choice, you’re for status quo that has shown it does not work. Definition of insanity is the continuance of the same thing every day expecting different results
Mikael R Kient
12:37 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
Ashley;
Hyperbole is not fact. This is a fact. Thank you
Mikael R Kient
12:55 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
Ashley;
Fact bill 1162 will not allow any money allocated to a local school system to go to a charter school. CCA did not take any local funds away form the CCSD system.
Fact a new school in an area that is not using local funds to operate is not a financial problem for the school distinct. Competition in any market is good for the consumer. IT allows for the customization of services to fit the dynamic needs of the market in question. Your child's learning aptitude is unique and can not be honestly compared to another. Those who have power seek to keep it.
Hyperbole: there is no need for another school in CCSD, there is nothing that the cca offer that is different than ccsd. Families at cca are racist fro attending the school. There is not diversity at CCA. CCA is taking money from my child's school.
nick
9:34 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Dr. B, my daughter, is gifted and was in AIM too - which at CCSD was a joke. Her "gifted" social studies teacher was degreed in English. She was never challenged. At CCA she will be in the Cambridge University advanced program where she can get high school credit while she is in middle school - show me a CCSD school that participates in that kind of program - you can't - because there are none.
Dr. B
9:42 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Greetings, nick.
While I certainly respect your right to advocate for your daughter's education, I have an opinion that is somewhat different and informed by years of higher education instruction. As a professor at a research university, I have taught scholars who are diverse in terms of race, class, gender, and preparation. It has been my experience that the most well-rounded, socially-grounded, and intellectually-prepared students do in fact come mostly from public schools, not from for-profit institutions or homeschool situations. Upon these years of observation of young scholars, I base my argument. However, as an involved parent, I do provide supplemental educational opportunities for my child, including Saturday School for Scholars @GSU, summer institutes in robotics at Purdue, and civil engineering courses at Georgia Tech. I have found that my child is happy and well-adjusted when he is able to balance his scholarly pursuits with social and ethnic diversity.
Mikael R Kient
11:54 am on Friday, March 2, 2012
DR B PHD in bullshido?
your success is subjective and can not be measured in general terms. You continued narcissistic comment prove where the problem have originated from. Your write a good book, but you are not selling any substance.
maly
9:43 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
Ashley, you are preaching to the chours on the fact that class size is the key to our children learning. What you do not realize is that we took over 800 kids our of CCSD schools. This should have helped with some class sizes I would think. We hear we need more schools and more room. We have too many children in one class so we need to expand. CCA has offered a solution to this. We didn't have to purchase land and then build a huge school which costs billions of dollars. We are in a school that no one was using, revitilizing it, and taking children out of crowded classrooms, one less student that teacher has to worry about, and put them in a different school. We should be thanked for helping with CCSD's over crowding problem but we are blasted for helping CCSD's over crowding problem. CCSD needs to learn how to budget better and not mismanage money! CCSD is bloated and could lose some weight.
Frank Jones
9:37 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
@Holly...you make some good points. I agree that CCSD shouldn't spend as much time reviewing for CRCT and should make the most of the entire school year. However, the real question everyone should be asking and looking at in a few months is whether individual CCA student scores improved over their prior year CCSD scores! Until that analysis is performed, everything is pure rhetoric! And for what it's worth, I have exceptionally gifted students in CCSD.
Mikael R Kient
12:11 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
Every child in ccsd is gifted... that is the low standard they have. IT is the realty folks,. many kids who are not truly gifted are labeled a such to get the extra federal dollars dolled out for the gifted student program. Or they label them special ed to get those dollar even if they are not.
Holly J
7:02 am on Monday, March 5, 2012
Mikael- I'm throwing a flag on your "every child in ccsd is gifted" comment. I can tell you of at least one who is not- my daughter. And while I'm at it, I can think of at least 3 other children just on my street who were not labeled "gifted." Now, is the term "gifted" overused in EVERY school district? Yep. Is that due to additional funds that are available? Yep. Are schools scrambling for every dollar they can? ABSOLUTELY! Thanks to years of "austerity cuts" meant to starve the system.
Frank Jones
9:47 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
@nich...Cambridge, Smaimbridge...Big deal! CCA applied for the program and went through a limited review. It's not like the CCA teachers went to Cambridge!
I have exceptionally intelligent children who were not challenged in elementary school and I agree, AIM is a joke! AIM should be eliminated in favor of accelerated full-time classes for the accelarated children. However, if your child is truly gifted, there are steps you can take in CCSD to rectify the problem. You just have to check into it and ask. As to getting high school credit while in middle school you're mistaken. CCSD does offers that.
Pete
10:22 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
@Frank, AIM is a joke--- everywhere, even at CCA (as they follow the same as the rest of the state of Georgia). I do like that they take the last hour of the day and split all kids out by level for differentiative learning. So that every kid gets that crucial teaching at the level they are at for the most important subjects. I only wish they did that longer.
Pete
10:16 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
The idea that there is one path, one solution is the only way to educate a child is rediculous. Why is there not the same loathing and hate being spewed at the people who choose homeschooling or private school. There are problems in CCSD school system. Heck there are inefficiencies and problems all across the school systems in this State and our country. People should actively talk about what works/what doesn't so that change and improvements happen. We don't make that happen by cutting each other down and acting like a damn episode of the Real Housewives. Now, there will be problems with CCA as well. Nothing is perfect! But I am not going to put down those people who are trying something different for their kids. I hope it works. I hope every child succeeds in this county. I hope that the magnet and stem schools pop up and are a success. I hope that ALL of our scores climb as a result of innovative ideas and forward thinking.
Pete
10:20 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Let me also say this. I chose to send my kid to CCA this year, because he was the ONLY brown kid in his class for the last 3 years. He noticed it, and it made him feel uncomfortable. We went to the open house and saw a lot of diversity. We are glad to say that he is only one of six in his class. We didn't leave CCSD because we had a problem with the teachers.
Amy L
10:20 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
@Michael, you show how little you really know. Many of the parents know that the way they have behaved has led to broken friendships. The statements they have made since last summer on here show their own prejudice. I have listened to it over and over during the main charter fight. I would never want to live they way these people have chosen to live. I will freely admit not all of the CCA parents are prejudice but on the Patch the CCA parents go on constant bullying and bashing rants. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.
@holly, congratulations on demonstrating exactly the type of rude and ill mannered parent I referred to earlier. You started all this because you didn't know the facts given out at a parent meeting. A parent meeting that no one attended. The remark that you have a diverse population because your administration is diverse was priceless....lol. Once again, don't dish out insults if you can't take getting some back. Personally the comments on here have been great entertainment for me today. Say what you want about me but you are upset because you know you were wrong. The only thing I would have liked to compliment you on was the apology to Rodney. However, next time try being sincere.
holly samuel
10:50 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Amy, my daughter is bi-racial. It was not rude and ill-mannered for me to put you in your place for putting me in a bucket that I do not belong in. If you ran into someone that was racist and represented CCA well then it is plain ignorant of you to assume that's why we all wanted our kids to go there and it is plain ignorant of that person to see color. If one white person was to make a racial comment then would you call the entire race racist? No. But maybe you would. And you missed the point in my apology. And I did not invite anyone to speak about racism. By the way, a diverse administration is not going to promote a racist environment. You have not insulted me, you have only shown your true ignorance.
Mikael R Kient
12:13 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
Amy L
OR you could be just honest and say miser loves company. An since they no longer are in misery along side you , then you are now not their friend.
holly samuel
10:28 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Dr. B - I fail to understand your stance. At first it was the gifted program. Now it's that your studies show the most exceptional people come from public schools. But really what I think you are saying is that a student with a very involved parent produces the well-rounded children that you speak of and THAT is what CCA is all about! And I really don't know what your point is with saying that your child is happy and well-adjusted when he is able to balance his scholarly pursuits with social and ethnic diversity. Are you saying you get that in CCSD and you would not get that at CCA? That doesn't seem very scholarly of you.
Dr. B
10:58 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Hi holly,
Given your previous linguistic errors, it does not surprise me that you don't understand. Let me simplify it for you:
1) I assert that my identified-gifted child not only excels in public school but that he has a personalized education plan that allows him to move up as he meets grade level objectives for gifted children. This argument counters (goes against) the charter-school contention that only they provide such opportunities.
2) We declined our CCA invitation because the principal would not directly answer questions regarding specific curricular goals and could not articulate (say with words) CCA's plan, if any, to challenge my gifted child.
3) I am basing my informed opinion on many years as a professor and published scholar (person who, like, does stuff with other stuff). I am speaking of my observations of thousands of students whom I teach at a research one university.
4) I am sorry that you don't understand what the phrase "social and ethnic diversity" means. Perhaps you can have a gifted child from either CCSD or CCA explain it to you. Cheers, and enjoy your bon bons while you lounge in your yoga pants and watch The View :)
Mikael R Kient
11:57 am on Friday, March 2, 2012
DR B PHD in Bullshido?
Your narcissism is astounding. How do you make it though the door at any school you present your massive ego at?
holly samuel
11:19 pm on Thursday, March 1, 2012
So nice of you. It seems really well-rounded of you, professor.
Pete
12:40 am on Friday, March 2, 2012
Dr B, wow. I am a bit ashamed at how this discussion has gone to the lowest common denominator. To allude that holly Samuel lacks intelligence and is perhaps lazy.. Wow. I had hoped for some avid debate where both sides can walk away with a bit more understanding. I !fear however, all I hear is mud slinging and playground bullying. This is just another example of the societal breakdown in our country. Everyone should take a message from Dr. Seuss (in light of the man's birthday) and read the Sneatchs. Maybe we can leard some lessons in decorum, and how to treat another person with respect.
Mikael R Kient
12:00 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
DR Seuss PHD common sense.
Kelly A.
7:59 am on Friday, March 2, 2012
Ga Ranks in the bottom 5% nationally in education. Other than the city of Atlanta, everyone else is saying how great their schools are and we don't need a Charter. Whoever is saying this has their head in the sand. Our education sucks statewide. Status quo is not working, what is everyone so scared of?
R.L. Federalist
8:40 am on Friday, March 2, 2012
Kelly A - I keep seeing the apples-to-oranges comparison between the state of GA and CCSD and I've asked several people a question that they can't seem to answer. I'm going to pose the same question to you, hoping that you can shed some light:
why do you Charter folks keep comparing things on a state-by-state basis? Georgia's place in education sucks...I stipulate that. But we're not talking about Georgia, we're talking about Cherokee County.
Data that's being published by CCSD shows that Cherokee ranks higher than the national average and when compared on a state-by-state basis, would be in the top half of the nation. They also provide data showing graduation rates that, when compared on a state-by-state basis, would be in the top 10% of the nation.
If they're cherry picking the good stuff but keeping the not-so-good stuff on the down-low, can you please provide me with some facts that you're privvy to which shows CCSD is as bad as you claim them to be?
Thanks in advance...
R.L. Federalist
8:43 am on Friday, March 2, 2012
Let me clarify the beginning of my question:
Data that's being published by CCSD shows that, for SAT scores, Cherokee ranks higher than the national average and when compared on a state-by-state basis, would be in the top half of the nation.
Sorry for the bad cut-and-paste job...
No More Bullies
8:45 am on Friday, March 2, 2012
Unfortunately, there is no credible evidence that charters are working either. Stop with the "Georgia is last in education" chant. Georgia ranks low on SAT scores (and anyone with an ounce of sense knows the reason behind that). Other than that one measure, where does this statistic come from? Charter supporters love the ALEC organization (it's all about privatizing education). Here, their own 2011 assessment shows Georgia ranks 27th and gets a B for reform. There you go. Right in the middle. http://www.alec.org/publications/report-card-on-american-education/ And Florida, that is so great, is 12th on this list, but guess where they are with SAT rank? Right beside Georgia.
Pete
9:19 am on Friday, March 2, 2012
What is truly getting old, is that CCSD is higher than the state average therefore we should think of no other ways to grow and change our educational ideas and opportunities in our county. Why not strive to be the absolute best in the state? One with the same opinion would say we need no magnet and stem schools here either. Yet, those counties that out perform ours have all of that variety available to them. Cherokee county has one of the largest homeschool populations in our state. Where is the outcry and hate spewed at them for rejecting their local school?. Why we are at it, let's put down those people who are sending their kids to private school.. Because Families make a choice other than their locally distracted schools does not mean they don't support them or think they are horrible. Fact- CCA is not getting any of your local tax dollars. The main reason why funding in our schools have dropped, is because the pool of money (property tax money) have dropped with the home values. It has been happening for years. CCA will close if it doesn't perform. That is a beautiful thing! If by chance, they are able to out perform any local districted schools on a fraction of the same budget (when factoring out transportation costs), then as smart business people we should look at that model and see what is done right.
Mikael R Kient
12:04 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
I home schooled for 3 years. as a result of that our child placed 97th in the nation on her testing. At pubic school as a gifted student top in her gifted class, she was routinely asked to teach the class while her teacher went to the break room to play on Facebook. =) Ask me if the Principle cared when i wanted my daughter financially compensated for her time?
Frank Jones
12:53 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
@Pete...Unfortunately the logic used by the school choice/charter croud is often flawed and is evident in your question as to "Where is the outcry and hate spewed" toward homeschoolers? The answer is that everyone supports a parent's decision to home school their child. People also don't care if others send their children to private schools at their own cost. What people do have a problem with is public school money being used to pay for-profit charter schools that have a history of marginal performance AND with legislators pushing their personal agendas while ignoring the majority of their constituents!
If you want to send your child to a private school at your expense or if you want to home school your child, go ahead. No one cares...Just don't ask us to pay for it!
Mikael R Kient
1:01 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
FRANK
Fact bill 1162 will not allow any money allocated to a local school system to go to a charter school. CCA did not take any local funds away form the CCSD system.
Fact a new school in an area that is not using local funds to operate is not a financial problem for the school distinct. Competition in any market is good for the consumer. IT allows for the customization of services to fit the dynamic needs of the market in question. Your child's learning aptitude is unique and can not be honestly compared to another. Those who have power seek to keep it.
Hyperbole: there is no need for another school in CCSD, there is nothing that the cca offer that is different than ccsd. Families at cca are racist fro attending the school. There is not diversity at CCA. CCA is taking money from my child's school..CCA is a private school, MY child school is not for profit. Home schooled dont pay taxes.
Pete
3:27 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
@ Frank, you are wrong. You are not paying for my childs education. My school has NOT taken away from funds for your school from a local or state level.
Pete
3:43 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
@ Frank.. I use that argument because Private schools and Homeschool programs get tax incentives, grants and funds to suppliment the educational costs. A lot are federal funds.. which are in fact public money. That is why I used that as an arguement. The local tax payer funds that you contribute to, are not going to the charter school. That is a fact. They are being funded by federal money alotted to the state.
While we are it, We can certainly get into an argument about public healthcare, which I am for actually..for the betterment of the people. I am also for privatizing some areas of government that isn't being run efficiently. I am not for a one size fits every solution type of guy.. you can not say that the new charter school has a history of marginal performance. That is not true. But it is written in their contract that they don't outperform the local CCSD average then they will be shut down. So it would take care of that issue.
Frank Jones
12:56 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
@Mikael...Congratulation on homeschooling your child and her 97th percentile scores. I wish her a great future. That said, CCSD offers the same academic opportunities. FWIW, my children score in the 97th and 98th percentiles and they've always attended CCSD schools!
Mikael R Kient
3:04 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
FRANK;
NO they do not.. they offer a canned learning experience that is not efficient for the dynamics that each child brings to the class. Type 3 gifted are highly intelligent and hard to keep interested in thing they can pickup with relative ease. And they want to hide their skills o they can easily fit in with their peers. I have one of those as well. CCSD doe snot have any ability to teach a child of this learning aptitude. MY point is, that the canned education system has is not allowing the children to excel in their own way. that is unfair to the child. We can argue my child is smarter than you r child all day and not win moot point. You child's choice in education is a life long decisions. IT is best for you and I to have a choice. No matter what the cost education is the key to a viable life. Cost is not the issue here. It is the monopoly of education that is the problem.
Frank Jones
1:09 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
@James...Yes, when you look at our country vs other countries, our combined performance is underwhelming! Unfortunately, there are many reasons for this including the extra-curricular activities you mentioned in addition to socio-economic issues.
If you watched the Fareed Zakaria special on education, the top two performing countries take two different approaches to education. In one, teachers are among the highest paid profession and it is more difficult to get into teaching schools than medical school. They don't believe in homework, start school at age 7, and don't do all of the standardized testing/planning we do. In the other country, students go to school around 6:30/7:00 AM, eat lunch AND dinner at the school, have after school tutoring programs (at school) and many parents send their children to evening tutoring programs. In that country, they've had to pass legislation to make eveing tutoring programs illegal if they run past 10:00 PM. The children outperform academically, but have no life.
So the question to you and others is which model do you want to follow? Study the kids to death or demand teacher excellence via higher pay and prestige?
Mikael R Kient
3:15 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
Open up competitiveness and the market will provide what the dynamics needs are in the area as well as the higher pay that teachers are demanding on their merit only. I am a teacher and i work for free... my class size is 3 however so it is not that big a deal.
Pete
4:02 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
@ Frank, no argument there..pay the teachers more. We should be But lets also look to see the other costs associated with teaching our children and ensure that we are utilizing the most efficient model possible. Lets look at our curriculum and tools to make sure we have the most cutting edge and effective materials possible.
Cheryl
3:00 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
@Mikael....can't believe that I am going this low, however; I hope you weren't responsible for teaching your gifted prodigy his spelling or grammar lessons.
Frank Jones
3:26 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
I 2nd that comment!
Mikael R Kient
3:56 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
Speleeng miet mater tue sum fer thair oen eegoe, but enee inttelijint persin ken reed thu sentints and noe wut it sae riggaardlis uv thu speleeng kaantent. Ie am naat suprriezd yue went soe loe. Wen yer aargyuemint haz noe substints uttak thu thu gramer uv yer uppoenint. Have a good day.
Frank Jones
3:56 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
@Mikael...The public has decided that public education is a good, necessary thing. If you decide to use it, good for you. If you don't and instead want to home school or send to private, good for you. Now on to your point that public dollars should follow your child. My answer is no. Consider the following...
The public decides that fire stations are a good thing and decides to fund them. You never use a fire station, but should you pay? Answer: YES because it's there in case you need it, it adds value to the community, it helps reduce your insurance bill, and improves your home value. Lastly, they're accountable to you, the public. But then someone proposes outsourcing the fire department to a for-profit, bottom-line driven company, that reports to out-of-state management & investors. Do you convert? Answer: NO. They will skimp on personnel & equipment to make the most money possible and provide just enough service to keep their contracts. Schools are no different. And in your argument, if $s follow the child, then why are child-less people paying school taxes? Answer...see above benefits.
Free enterprise is great, especially when dealing with commodity products where there is a low cost of entering the industry. However, education and our kids aren't commodity products. Throw in a 3rd party payer, public funds, a profit motive, and board of directors accountable to its investors, it's a recipe for disaster.
Mikael R Kient
4:13 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
FRANK;
Your analogy is moot. Baseless and not relevant to the issue at hand. Wrought with conjecture and rhetoric. Funny thing charters have been in use in other counties for many years, there was no outcry at the state establishing these charters before now in CCSD. I speculate the CCSD school system has something to hide. I can only speculate, but the resistance is unusual for a system that heralds their greatness. IF what is said about CCSD is true there is nothing to worry about. Money does not make a child smart. IT is the value of the education that does that right?
Mikael R Kient
4:15 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
Further more the public is also recognizing the need for change to the benefit of the student.
Pete
4:09 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
Again, WOW! Insulting someone because of a typo. VERY MATURE..I am done with this board, because this is not a grown up debate on issues. There is no common ground being met by most people. This conversation is fruitless.. I wish all of your families successes in education, where ever they may be. I hope you all have a nice day.
Mikael R Kient
4:37 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
Sadly Pete it is not meant to be. Those who speak against a choice in education do so with talking points or resources that supports their preconceived conclusions. Confirmation bias and argumentative theory of reasoning coupled with willful ignorance to the topic at hand is the only thing I see happing here.
Choice should be paramount in the desire to educate your child. Imagine if the choice of professional education was limited to the area you are living. How limited that would be for the student. Blindly following what is told to you only because it supports what you already believe or are willfully ignorant to follow is just sad. There is a cliff ahead and I for one am not going over it no matter how many go before me and say that I should. I will investigate its destination first and foremost. Proper management of a school system account for every dollar that is spent, can you find that data about CCSD ?
R.L. Federalist
4:45 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
Hey, MIKAEL: I'm pleased to see that you know big words and enjoy the level of verbosity that you do. I tend to do that sometimes myself. BUT:
Have you ever heard the expression "Measure twice, cut once"?
My e-mail is blowing up with you making the same comment 2-3 times with only minor variations. Seems like you're posting someting, going back and reading it to remind yourself how smart you are and then thinking,"Oh, hell...my spelling/grammar/sentence structure wasn't quite right. Let me repost!"
Before you hit that "Submit" button, why don't you do yourself and everyone else a little favor and proof-read first, Pumpkin...
Much obliged...
Mikael R Kient
5:26 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
Federalist - The national government (federal government in case of the United States) should be the supreme authority which can keep the states in control.
Nice to know where you stand on the subject of individual choice.
R.L. Federalist
7:22 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
Mikael - nice try, but it's one of those 10th Amendment things: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Federalists tend to believe in strong state government and individual rights with a limited federal presence.
So, yeah...individual choice is pretty important.
Kelly A.
4:19 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
It is all in how it is said. You can twist words to make them sound different than the truth. For example:
A woman without her man, is nothing.
A woman, without her, man is nothing.
CCA does not have a $1.3M shortfall, and is funded for next year.
Christine
5:40 pm on Saturday, March 3, 2012
Kelly, CCA does have a 1.3M shortfall! This is not new information. As a matter of fact, this information was made public at the Board of Directors' meeting of the Cherokee Charter Academy System Local Governing Council Board in November, 2011. I happen to know this, because I was in attendance of that meeting. The fiscal issues of CCA were discussed in great detail at the November meeting.
Frank Jones
4:37 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
@Mikael...You assert that my analogy is moot, baseless and not relevant. Obviously, you aren't intelligent enough to see the relevance. But on to your point that charters have been used in other countries and no outcry until it was CCSD.
Other countries with charters? Name them and I guarantee that they aren't the top two countries based upon education scores! Also, just because another country does something, you argue we should too. I'm fine with that. Every industrialized nation has socialized medicine, so should we. Gotcha!
As to no outcry before CCSD, it must be a Dr. P scandal. Or could it be that we have one of the best school systems and an informed populace?
Mikael R Kient
5:02 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
counties in Georgia... not world
Mikael R Kient
5:17 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
Willful ignorance and blind faith don't count.
Cheryl
4:45 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
I was not commenting on typos but numerous grammatical errors in all of his posts.
I've been told by one of the Republican members of out legislative delegation that the money for the charters schools will not come out of the percentage of the amount budgeted for education but off the top of the budget. So it will look like we are getting the same percentage of the pot but the potis smaller. Sneaky way of saying that the money isn't coming from public schools.
Mikael R Kient
5:18 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
Cherly;
what money does the state owe CCSD?
Mikael R Kient
6:18 pm on Friday, March 2, 2012
When you cant argue the substance attack the grammar and spelling.. Winning!
"The Real Deal" Education Advocate
7:59 pm on Saturday, March 3, 2012
Ok - once again, I have to inform the public of "The Real Deal" because The Patch and The Tribune are lockstep in the "slanted" bed with the CCSD in usual socialist fashion - Barbara Jacoby tells the Trib and the other media outlets in Cherokee to jump and as usual, they say "Yes Mam."
Here's the "Real Deal" - the reported shortfall is only a budget planning shortfall and the actual deficit or gain is as was listed in the Tribune (hidden deep within the article)..."The financial summary also forecasts a net school deficit of $77,023 for the fiscal year."
It was also noted that this was a "cash flow problem." That being, once the money that was promised to Cherokee Charter Academy flows in, there will be no deficity but rather the school will be financially stable. Also, once transportation is provided as promised during year two, and the Charter Bill is voted on successfully by the public, we will see CCA become full and stable funding from the Fed and State provided, and there will be no funding issues.
This is just another "last ditch" effort by the left wing to attempt to derail the School Choice train in Cherokee and discredit a great school for children - what else would be expected ? Everyone on this board discrediting the school is a CCSD Teacher or Employee, for sure.
Seriously people, is this how bad it gets? Resorting to scandalous lies? Good grief!!!
Concerned Mom
9:02 am on Sunday, March 4, 2012
I'll say it again, I am NOT a teacher in the county. I have never been a teacher in the county. It may be hard for some CCA supporters/parents to hear, but some parents in the county actually LIKE the public school system. Do they not realize they only have a little more than 800 kids in their school, therefore all the rest of us, must LIKE the public education our kids are getting. Granted, some of us sat on our rumps and didn't realize what was going on for quite some time. Lucky for us, the state government nosed in and it made the news what was going on. Parents like myself who thought it would never happen woke up, and some realized what was going on. Now we are coming together to fight this. Wake up CCA parents, not all of us hate CCSD like you do. If the majority of parents did you'd have more than 800 kids and a waiting list so long you could look into opening a second school.
Frank Jones
5:20 pm on Sunday, March 4, 2012
@Real Deal...There you go again spouting non-sense! Anyone who doesn't follow you blindly must be left-wingers and socialists. May I remind you that we're talking about the people of Cherokee County who are some of the most conservative people in the country. There are enough democrats, socialist, or other free-thinkers in Cherokee County to fill a classroom!!! And obviously, any media that reports the news must be socialists and slanted, unless of course you're the Fox Republican Network.
There is a cash flow problem with CCA and the problem is that they need, they want, and they are trying to get public money for a for-profit corporation...But yes, if they get our tax dollars, there won't be a cash flow problem. Now for the irony, you want Government to come to the rescue of a private business. You sound like a Republican version of a Democrat. Good Job!
Frank Jones
10:53 pm on Sunday, March 4, 2012
What am I missing?
CCA, Chip Rogers, and others argue that the school is needed. The school organized a "lottery event" last year planning for 995 students. However, as of January enrollment was only 825 students (83%) of planning. Essentially, they over estimated the "need" by 17%. Now for the kicker...of the students enrolled, 22 (3%) left in January. Why?
And it gets better...of the 825 students enrolled in January only 95% or 784 students are in attendance (i.e. 41 students aren't in attendance). Where are the missing students? Is the school being paid to educate 41 missing students?
Also, what I've heard from charter supporters is that parents are "involved". However, CCA surveyed their parents after 90 days and only received responses from 55% of them. Seems to me that if the parents were thrilled and involved they would have responded and responded favorably. Seeing as how 45% did not respond, it makes me think that 45% of the parents aren't thrilled and may have been afraid of answering negatively.
Thoughts anyone?
"The Real Deal" Education Advocate
11:28 pm on Sunday, March 4, 2012
@Frank & Ashley - something tells me that based on your logic, if this were the 1960's, the two of you would be lockstep in supporting local school boards support of racial segregation within education. And if you claim you would not, then why is 2012 any different??? You stand in opposition to a child whose parents want them to get a public charter education getting the same money as parents who want their child to get a traditional education. How is this educational slavery of 2012 any different from the educational slavery of the 1800's and the 1960's? Perhaps the two of you should read these two articles, on the truth..and rethink your stance.
http://www.ajc.com/opinion/charter-ruling-flunks-history-956354.html
http://www.runawayslavemovie.com/site/
Concerned Mom
2:38 pm on Monday, March 5, 2012
It's these kinds of comments and attacks on people who disagree with you and CCA that leave a bad taste in the mouths of many people. You do your cause no favors by this kind of remark. I can say this, with "arguments" like this, you show exactly who is biased, who is the one with the issue with acceptance of others, and who shouldn't be leading the "rally cry" for your cause. You hurt it far more than you help it.
hope
10:08 am on Monday, March 5, 2012
You do have options...you have the option to be happy or to be mad. People waste so much time and energy being mad (especially here). There was a lot of madness in the high school gymnasium that fateful evening as well. But you know what? This morning… I got my happy bootie in my happy car and drove my happy beautiful children to CCA. I kissed them goodbye and thanked God for my blessed life. For the remainder of this school year and the next school year, I will do the same thing repeatedly. The option of CCA was a blessing for our family - it’s none of your business why! So go ahead...waste a bunch of time and energy being mad…let it eat you up. Misery loves company. My family…we choose happy!
Mikael R Kient
10:36 am on Monday, March 5, 2012
Well said Hope..
wondermom2
12:33 am on Wednesday, March 7, 2012
Ashely, the only room we have is in the 7th grade and it would have been full as well if the opening delay had not have happened. The other grades are full so no more can enter right now. I believe there are going to be more applying this year than last year as well since they have heard about CCA and how wonderful we are.
"The Real Deal" Education Advocate
11:23 am on Monday, March 5, 2012
@Ashley - I ask you to please answer these questions at hand -
1) Why should a child whose whose parents want them to get a public charter education (because it will help them optimize their child's education) get less, or no money or opportunity at all, as parents who want their child to get a traditional public education? Are you telling me, and parents like Hope, that because Dr. P has determined by use of test scores and other self-proclaimed data, that because Cherokee is an overall great school district, that individual children who could be better off in a charter delivery environment cannot have that and must be enslaved to a poorer solution solely because Dr. P and people like you (those that make their living off of the public system) say so???
2) How is this educational slavery of 2012 any different from the educational slavery of the 1800's and the 1960's? Can you articulate this objectively? Why is a child that attends a traditional public school treated and resourced better than a child attending a charter school? Is this not discrimination, and educational segregation and slavery?
3) If your child was performing poorly in a traditional public school in CCSD, then all of a sudden, you moved them to a Charter environment, and they reached their highest potential, would you move them back to the traditional public school environment, and accept that as ok??? Think about your answer to that question.
Cheryl
11:32 am on Monday, March 5, 2012
Where will the charter school students go to high school? Could some of them end up back in the CCSD schools that their parents have been bad mouthing? They will be welcomed because this issue is about educating all kids, can CCA say the same thing?
wondermom2
12:22 am on Wednesday, March 7, 2012
Cheryl, we are eventually going to have a high school with CCA.
"The Real Deal" Education Advocate
11:58 am on Monday, March 5, 2012
To all reading this board - as expected, my posting above on Saturday March 4th at 7:59 p.m. has now come to be 100% accurate. That being, that the recent reported "shortfall" was an orchestrated attempt by the local media and the CCSD to unscrupulously discredit CCA. See the correction and article today by Danny Dukes published in The Patch.
http://canton-ga.patch.com/articles/fl-operator-advances-cherokee-charter-academy-needed-funds
It just goes to show you how unscrupulous and full of vengeance the CCSD and some of the media are acting right now. If I didn't know any better I would have thought I was living in Chicago and seeing the corrupt politics of Rahm Emanuel and Obama in full action.
Thank you Mr. Dukes for setting the record straight, for educating the public on the truth, and for calling out the CCSD and some elements of the local media for the unscrupulous actions that have been undertaken in an attempt to shamelessly wreck a wonderful school in CCA. Dr. P said a few weeks ago, "The Gloves are Off." The problem with that statement is that what he probably meant to say, "Let the backstabbing begin."
Real men, with scruples, go toe to toe where all can see who they are, and what they are all about. The truth is now out.
Concerned Mom
2:25 pm on Monday, March 5, 2012
I wouldn't trust a word out of Danny Dukes. He is bias.
"The Real Deal" Education Advocate
12:18 pm on Monday, March 5, 2012
No, at the end of the day, this all boils down to one thing - either you agree that money appropriated for education should belong to the child regardless of what type of school they attend or where they attend, or you believe in the money going solely to a government run educational system that serves some but underserves a large % of students - (ergo, educational slavery) - and that is most likely because you are part of the government ystem that feeds you. It is that simple. Watch the documentary, "Waiting for Superman." This has nothing to do with money other than the fact that the public educational establishment wants all the money, all the power, and has all the greed, and could care less about the children unless it conveniently fits nicely into their agenda of Power, Money, and more greed. That is it. If you feel your kids are at risk, it is not because of the Charter School - it is because of Dr. P's lavish spending on indirect staffing he refuses to cut ahead of classroom teaching and resources, the new administration building he wants, and the old SPLOST where he has spent millions of dollars over budget of the taxpayer's money on school buildings and other programs that were questionable in terms of "need."